Ryan
Hunter/worker
Posts: 195
|
Post by Ryan on Mar 9, 2006 21:44:19 GMT -5
love 'em? hate 'em?
Anyone ever had any injuries to them?
Our vet charges $850 to remove them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Baldassarre on Mar 10, 2006 3:20:05 GMT -5
Don't even THINK about it! They are thumbs. Studies have shown that they are used esp in turning @ high speeds to gain purchase on the ground.
Not withstanding that fact, there are breeds, by standard which require they be left on.
IF they really were a liablility, God would have removed them for us!
It's a cosmetic issue...let it go!
|
|
|
|
Post by hicntry on Mar 10, 2006 9:53:32 GMT -5
I don't take them off. If you have been around airedales, the dew claws are the least of anyones worries......they get you with all of them Cartiledge connected dew claws, improperly removed, will cause more problems than the dew claw.
|
|
|
|
Post by southern on Mar 10, 2006 10:26:53 GMT -5
I usually remove them, most hunters do not want them. It depends on the customers order.
|
|
Ryan
Hunter/worker
Posts: 195
|
Post by Ryan on Mar 10, 2006 10:30:01 GMT -5
interesting all around.
dont worry Mark, even if the price were more reasonable we would have given it much more thought. at that price it isnt even remotely an option.
|
|
|
|
Post by Idaho Steve on Mar 10, 2006 11:35:40 GMT -5
I assume you guys are speaking of front dew-claws, I agree they are no prob. But though I have yet to see an AD with rear ones, they are common on other breeds and should be removed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sidney on Mar 10, 2006 11:43:24 GMT -5
Chris feels the same way about tails -- that docking the tail makes the dog work extra hard to maintain balance (really paraphrasing -- it has been years since I attended her seminar). What is the reason that you (all of you generally -- not you specifically, Theresa) dock tails? Do you really feel that the tail will be prone to injury, or is it for looks? |
|
|
|
Post by hicntry on Mar 10, 2006 11:54:21 GMT -5
Steve brings up a ggod point. Many breeds have rear dewclaws that are not cartiledge conections. They just flop around loose and should be removed.
|
|
|
|
Post by southern on Mar 10, 2006 12:40:17 GMT -5
T- we'll just haveta wait and see what comes avail. I got an older litter of blacks up in Colorado, some slick coat, but that isn't what you are asking for. It may take a while for a slick red coat
|
|
|
|
Post by Sidney on Mar 10, 2006 12:48:59 GMT -5
Laurie Edge-Hughes, a physical therapist and instructor in canine rehabilitation, feels that docking is unnecessary and potentially harmful. She has a Bachelor of Science degree in Physical Therapy, is certified in canine rehabilitation therapy, and has certification from the Acupuncture Foundation of Canada Institute. In her practice at The Canine Fitness Centre in Calgary, she regularly works with dogs who suffer from hypersensitivity and other problems potentially related to their amputated tails, and often theorizes that the problems are related to this scar tissue.
When dogs don't have tails to provide a counterbalance and rudder for movement, something has to give.
"If you take away the ability to shift weight or compensate for balance displacement by use of the tail mechanism, then the forces that would otherwise be absorbed otherwise' counteracted through the tail need to be shifted elsewhere," says Edge-Hughes. She speculates that the stress or pressure could then fall on the cruciate ligament or patella, hip, or hock joints, or even travel up the chain into the sacroiliac joints or spine, potentially causing or contributing to seemingly unrelated orthopedic injuries.
Cruciate disease and other orthopedic problems can have many contributing factors, and can occur in dogs both with tails and without tails. Yet, for dogs, who evolved to have tails, having them removed may add another cause of injury.
Edge-Hughes is also concerned about docked dogs who are unable to use tail wagging (with a tail of normal length and without scar tissue) to stretch and flex the dura, keeping it pliable. This could be a particular problem when a dog has a slow, progressive disc lesion, such as a bulging disc, which slowly compresses the dura and spinal cord over time. "The dura might become inflamed more easily if it is not as pliable. This may lead to a faster onset of neurological in 1996 in the Australian Veterinary Journal, describes how the tail is interconnected with the physiological structure of the entire hind end of the dog. He speculates that removing the tail may change the muscle tone and contribute to perineal hernias and signs and symptoms that accompany disc lesions," she explains. Veterinarian Robert Wansborough. in a paper published published in 1996 in the Australian Veterinary Journal, describes how the tail is interconnected with the physiological structure of the entire hind end of the dog. He speculates that removing the tail may change the muscle tone and contribute to perineal hernias and incontinence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sidney on Mar 10, 2006 13:12:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by melanie on Mar 10, 2006 21:04:20 GMT -5
I assume you guys are speaking of front dew-claws, I agree they are no prob. But though I have yet to see an AD with rear ones, they are common on other breeds and should be removed. Dews? Take 'em off at 3 days or forget it. Especially for $850! I had my adult Greyhound's removed and it didn't come anywhere NEAR $850! (I don't regret it, they were always getting caught on something.) I've seen an Airedale with rear dews. A throwback from somewhere...  [glow=red,2,300]Mel[/glow] |
|
|
|
Post by Idaho Steve on Mar 11, 2006 12:52:44 GMT -5
Laurie Edge-Hughes, a physical therapist and instructor in canine rehabilitation, feels that docking is unnecessary and potentially harmful. She has a Bachelor of Science degree in Physical Therapy, is certified in canine rehabilitation therapy, and has certification from the Acupuncture Foundation of Canada Institute. In her practice at The Canine Fitness Centre in Calgary, she regularly works with dogs who suffer from hypersensitivity and other problems potentially related to their amputated tails, and often theorizes that the problems are related to this scar tissue. When dogs don't have tails to provide a counterbalance and rudder for movement, something has to give. "If you take away the ability to shift weight or compensate for balance displacement by use of the tail mechanism, then the forces that would otherwise be absorbed otherwise' counteracted through the tail need to be shifted elsewhere," says Edge-Hughes. She speculates that the stress or pressure could then fall on the cruciate ligament or patella, hip, or hock joints, or even travel up the chain into the sacroiliac joints or spine, potentially causing or contributing to seemingly unrelated orthopedic injuries. Cruciate disease and other orthopedic problems can have many contributing factors, and can occur in dogs both with tails and without tails. Yet, for dogs, who evolved to have tails, having them removed may add another cause of injury. Edge-Hughes is also concerned about docked dogs who are unable to use tail wagging (with a tail of normal length and without scar tissue) to stretch and flex the dura, keeping it pliable. This could be a particular problem when a dog has a slow, progressive disc lesion, such as a bulging disc, which slowly compresses the dura and spinal cord over time. "The dura might become inflamed more easily if it is not as pliable. This may lead to a faster onset of neurological in 1996 in the Australian Veterinary Journal, describes how the tail is interconnected with the physiological structure of the entire hind end of the dog. He speculates that removing the tail may change the muscle tone and contribute to perineal hernias and signs and symptoms that accompany disc lesions," she explains. Veterinarian Robert Wansborough. in a paper published published in 1996 in the Australian Veterinary Journal, describes how the tail is interconnected with the physiological structure of the entire hind end of the dog. He speculates that removing the tail may change the muscle tone and contribute to perineal hernias and incontinence. Theorizes, is the key word in this conglomeration of "scientific" mubo jumbo. If the dog is docked as a 3 day old or less pup the nerve receptors are not fully formed and little or no pain is experianced. After 4 days, and successively, with age, pain and potential for possible shock reaction experianced, increases. A vet should be employed from 8 weeks on. A dog docked as a puppy, instinctfully conpensates from the beginning, and balance is no issue. As an adult, compensation takes longer. In any case, normal dogs, other than longdogs, can't run fast enough to make it an issue in the beginning. Back problems and incontinence issues become evident in dogs docked too short(I'm talking even with their ass), injured, or natural bobtails; with ADs we're speaking of docking 1/3 of the tail. Mute. |
|
|
|
Post by Maverick on Mar 12, 2006 2:09:37 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be a solid red slick (that would be so cool) but just not black. I know, I shouldn't have color prejudice, but I just don't like a black or mostly black dog. (Because they get hot so fast.) Theresa - I too find the red, especially dark or deep red, very aesthetically pleasing! But, when you refer to a slick coat, I think of a short single coated dog like a rat terrier or greyhound. I think the term more appropriate would be smooth coat, which at least to me connotates a double coated dog that lies flat and dense -- excellent protection from the elements without being a burr magnet. But, that's me.  |
|
|
|
Post by melanie on Mar 12, 2006 2:10:00 GMT -5
T- we'll just have ta wait and see what comes avail. I got an older litter of blacks up in Colorado, some slick coat, but that isn't what you are asking for. It may take a while for a slick red coat thanks, Southern! It doesn't have to be a solid red slick (that would be so cool) but just not black. I know, I shouldn't have color prejudice, but I just don't like a black or mostly black dog. (Because they get hot so fast.) Dang, I've got the most fabulous slick, but alas, he is black and tan. He's 12-1/2 weeks old - Gene - I LIKE him. [glow=red,2,300]Mel[/glow] |
|
