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Post by gundermann on May 14, 2008 23:19:09 GMT -5
Just wondering how you would judge Caesar's lines as far as your definitions of loose, tight, cold, hot, etc. Where does he fall on the scale? Below I've listed his pedigree or at least as much as I could fit. Can you tell anything from this or would I have to go back further or add in the litter numbers? Thanks, Rob
Fort Sage French Autumn (Great) Fort Sage Snooper (Grandpa) Fort Sage Precious Lucy (Great)
Charlie Brown of Fort Sage (Terra's dad)
Sir Alvis of Napier (Great) Washoes Curly Sioux (Grandma) Washoes Mistress Bryerpatch (Great)
Fort Sage Terra The Vandal (Caesar's mom)
Maxwell Dugan Wilson (Great) Joe Joe of Fort Sage (Grandfather) Fort Sage Lady Maido (Great William's Princess Anna Bell (Terra's mom) Quachita's Teddy Roosevelt (Great) Quachita's Bell of the Ball (Grandmother) Quachita Sweet N Spicey (Great)
Cherokee George the First (Great) Maxwell Dugan Wilson (Grandpa) Magnificant MTN Molly (Great) Fort Sage Mountain King Bear (Calvin's Dad) Cherokee George the First (Great) Fort Sage Kat Balou (Grandma) Fort Sage Lady Miado (Great)
Calvin The Vandal (Caesar's dad)
Obrien's Muk E Tuk (Great) Scocie (Grandpa) Earl's Buffy (Great)
Belle's Rosa McGee (Calvin's Mom)
Ouachita's Teddy Roosevelt (Great) Quachita's Bell of the Ball (Grandma) Ouachita's Sweet N Spicey (Great)
Crap, it shows everything indented but it's not coming up indented when I post it. Don, can you read it? If not just delete the thread.
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Post by thistlesdale on May 15, 2008 19:41:20 GMT -5
I can't read it, but it looks a heck of a lot better than mine ;D I see Ouachita's Teddy Roosevelt in there, Ouachita's Bell of the Ball, Fort Sage Lady Miado. www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/airedale_terrier/breedinfo.html Anybody's who's got a pedigree to post ("register a dog"), ought to post it, IMO. Even old pedigrees. Because somebody out there, maybe even somebody in another country, might be looking for a name from way, way back, that they've been breeding on for years. That happens with other breeds on there all the time. Breeders hook up from all over the world. The most important thing with pedigrees is to be honest & accurate. Lots of people fudge them, for lots of reasons. But the thing is, by keeping accurate records, if problems surface down the line, you can sometimes trace them back to a particular animal or cross, & then you'll know what to steer clear of.
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Post by thistlesdale on May 15, 2008 20:05:44 GMT -5
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Post by gundermann on May 16, 2008 13:11:37 GMT -5
Thanks TD. That Teddy Roosevelt must have done some traveling because an awful lot of people seem to know him. I'm not sure what was so great about him but everyone says he was a "great" dog. I wish I had the chance to meet him or some of the other dogs in his lines. I really liked King Bear and Belle, that's why I wanted a dog from that breeding. I had to wait a while and give a check in advance to people I didn't know but I wanted that dog pretty bad.
Thanks for the link too. I like the linebreeding check feature. If I get a chance tonight I'll plug in one of my dogs and see what it says. I got both the sire and dam of Caesar from the same breeder, Fort Sage, so I'm especially curious. Rob
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Post by southern on May 16, 2008 14:43:51 GMT -5
I have most of the old pedigrees
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Post by hicntry on May 16, 2008 16:14:18 GMT -5
Rob, I know Pat and Lonnie won't line breed so it is pretty much random type breeding and isn't close It is the most common way of breeding today. Good dogs are produced this way but it is a crap shoot in the houses favor. Most good pets are bred this way but serious dogs is another thing. Just depends on what a perspective buyer is looking for. This type of breeding is where puppy testing is a must to separate the wheat from the chaffe.
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Post by southern on May 16, 2008 16:21:43 GMT -5
Rob, I know Pat and Lonnie won't line breed so it is pretty much random type breeding and isn't close It is the most common way of breeding today. Good dogs are produced this way but it is a crap shoot in the houses favor. Most good pets are bred this way but serious dogs is another thing. Just depends on what a perspective buyer is looking for. This type of breeding is where puppy testing is a must to separate the wheat from the chaffe. I have been saying this now for years. There are other breeders who go about the country buying the big ones without knowing what genitic junk they are carrying, but what do I know
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Post by thistlesdale on May 16, 2008 20:34:01 GMT -5
Thanks TD. That Teddy Roosevelt must have done some traveling because an awful lot of people seem to know him. I'm not sure what was so great about him but everyone says he was a "great" dog. I wish I had the chance to meet him or some of the other dogs in his lines. [ ] Hey, the pleasures all mine. I really enjoy this stuff. Sounds kind of weird, I know, but there's a whole lot worse things to look at on the internet I won't pretend to know anything about Ouachita's Teddy Roosevelt, I just saw his name behind Belle's Rosa McGee (Calvin's Mom), & behind William's Princess Anna Bell (Terra's mom). I found a listing for Ouachita Kennels in Mena, Arkansas here: www.loghomes-texas.com/Dogs/Airedale_Terrier/airedale_terrier.html I see you’ve also got Fort Sage Lady Maido behind Fort Sage Terra The Vandal (Caesar's mom), & behind Fort Sage Mountain King Bear (Calvin's Dad), but I can’t quite make out the relationship. I had to wait a while and give a check in advance to people I didn't know but I wanted that dog pretty bad. Yeah, that's how a lot of them do it nowdays. But if the dog turns out to be real good, it's money well spent. Let me know if you upload anybody into that database, so I can have a look.
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Post by thistlesdale on May 16, 2008 20:42:55 GMT -5
I have been saying this now for years. There are other breeders who go about the country buying the big ones without knowing what genitic junk they are carrying, but what do I know May I ask, are you this "southern?": www.airedaleblack.com/about.html
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Post by southern on May 16, 2008 20:48:53 GMT -5
Yes, this is Southern Herrera aka Southern ROC Airedales
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Post by thistlesdale on May 16, 2008 21:31:57 GMT -5
Yes, this is Southern Herrera aka Southern ROC Airedales Howdy there, nice to meet you. I'm wondering about those blacks. I'm assuming they go back to mooreland's? I think maybe I read somewhere that it all started with "mooreland's double down black jack?" I've been trying to google info on that, but haven't found much. In any case, I'd like to know more about them, & it pretty much looks like anybody else who's got a black, got it from you. Care to enlighten me on the subject? I'd sure appreciate it. either way, thanks
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Post by southern on May 16, 2008 21:46:31 GMT -5
easier to talk than type, please private email me your # or call me at the kennel either way you are right, Mooreland & mt. View
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Post by gundermann on May 16, 2008 22:13:28 GMT -5
Thanks, Don, Southern and TD. I did a lot of testing with my pups before deciding who to keep. Of the five boys I kept three back til they were four and a half months as I decided who besides Caesar was going to spend his life with me:) The funny thing is, my mother in law took one of the girls, my daughter really liked the pup so I let her take it so it would stay in the family. I DID NOT want another female in the house!!! Anyway, I always thought my mother in law ruined the dog, she did all sorts of show type obedience with her, spayed her at six months, etc. Then she was out in Arizona with my wife and I was out visiting...I picked up my 8 year old who didn't want to go to bed, started carrying her upstairs, got to the stairs and she started screaming. That dog came running at me barking and growling and I knew damn well if i didn't put the child down and explain things to the dog I'd be getting bit. Funny how things can lay dorment in a dog and then suddenly come out. It suprised the hell out of all of us.
I'm going back to wolves and trying to learn the basics again. I was reading about the advantages to having different behavior types making up different personalities in the pack...how one nervous wolf is more likely to spot danger before the rest, how a bold wolf is an advantage when food is scarce because he'll take more risks, how one wolf will specialize in hunting birds while another in the same pack will never manage to kill one. It shows what a breeder is up against in terms of mother nature. She wants diversity. I have a lot of respect for those who can pull out certain behavior types. It would be interesting to know what traits are connected. Some of you long time breeders probably know some of that already.
I have a question for Mark, do you see a difference in the number of dogs willing to join their master in an attack as opposed to the number of dogs willing to attack without their master? My dogs were bred as strike dogs so it really didn't take much effort to convince them that people were actually bears but I'm just wondering since joining in on an attack is such a base instinct in a dog if you see a difference in those willing to attack alone as opposed to those willing to join in the attack with their master? Just curious. Rob
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Post by thistlesdale on May 18, 2008 19:54:02 GMT -5
I was reading about the advantages to having different behavior types making up different personalities in the pack...how one nervous wolf is more likely to spot danger before the rest, how a bold wolf is an advantage when food is scarce because he'll take more risks, how one wolf will specialize in hunting birds while another in the same pack will never manage to kill one. It shows what a breeder is up against in terms of mother nature. She wants diversity. Wow! You've given me a lot to think about there, Rob. ;D
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Post by Mark Baldassarre on May 19, 2008 0:08:27 GMT -5
"I have a question for Mark, do you see a difference in the number of dogs willing to join their master in an attack as opposed to the number of dogs willing to attack without their master? My dogs were bred as strike dogs so it really didn't take much effort to convince them that people were actually bears but I'm just wondering since joining in on an attack is such a base instinct in a dog if you see a difference in those willing to attack alone as opposed to those willing to join in the attack with their master? Just curious."
Rob,
Most dogs lack "fight" enough to do much of anything either way w/o a lot of build up first. BUT, I have indeed seen dogs that were happy to fight from the beginning yet they were not tested initially in protection of owner. I have owned dogs of both types myself...those happy to fight for them and those willing to fight for me. Some I knew where fighting for their own enjoyment and others who truly cared,lol. Often the ones that do care, don't have enough fight for the follow through or are stressed in fight. This is more typical of females. Yes it should be easier for a dog to join the fight but few do. Where I see my Airedale as exceptional is; he IS protective and loaded w/FIGHT both. Often, when testing a dog out in the normal fashion where the dog is addressed; the dog may be addressed in an "aggressive" manner by the decoy but the dog still sees it as prey. In a test of defense the dog really has to want to protect YOU. It tests something rather different. Where it can become something similar{more prey} is when you conduct it like you described...you attack the decoy and let the dog jump on board.
Hey, if you have dogs that see people as animals...I want one! Do these dogs bring anger to the man or are they working in prey aggression? Will your dogs show teeth to people? Are they socially aggressive?
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