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Post by southern on Nov 8, 2009 19:03:31 GMT -5
I will john, thanks. By the way Gunner & Native bred today, that male you've been wanted will be on the ground in 68 days.
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Post by Undercover Cowboy on Nov 8, 2009 19:56:27 GMT -5
jespinoza ... You might should just stay out of this...you could be in over your head...
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Post by jespinoza on Nov 8, 2009 21:36:47 GMT -5
WOW CV I would just like to hear the rest of the story and find out what the final results are. It really is a very interesting story, As far as " In over my head" well, been there, done that, survived several times. Also I don't want to argue, I would just like to hear the story. I just grew up and was taught to respect a Lady. But I will step back and keep to the part about the Airedales. As far as personal threats, send them to my personal messages, I can deal with them there. I think people reading the board don't mind us arguing a valid point, but don't enjoy reading personal threats. Interesting reading so far Southern.
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Post by Undercover Cowboy on Nov 8, 2009 21:42:35 GMT -5
Threat... you have a good imagination...
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Post by kinnidi on Nov 8, 2009 22:04:02 GMT -5
i raise rare white airedales. they are pure, too. i live on the north pole and they are better hunters if they are white. i hunt polar bears, snow hares, and the occaisional arctic fox. i even sold one to santa claus for tons of money, because they are so rare. he uses his to herd his reindeer. sometimes he uses him to herd his elves too. you can figure how rambunctious those elves get after a night in a tavern, worse than irishmen, they are.
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Post by twopearsons on Nov 8, 2009 22:34:55 GMT -5
As far as size goes has nobody heard of the Oorang Airedale, I would rather have a large Airedale then those little things that AKC claims are true Airedales I also raise the Blacks and mine act Like my AKC Airedales. I have breed my black to black and tan and I can say out of all my litters they are great. So if you don't like the Blacks stick it in your ear and get a life
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Post by hicntry on Nov 8, 2009 23:07:00 GMT -5
i raise rare white airedales. they are pure, too. i live on the north pole and they are better hunters if they are white. i hunt polar bears, snow hares, and the occaisional arctic fox. i even sold one to santa claus for tons of money, because they are so rare. he uses his to herd his reindeer. sometimes he uses him to herd his elves too. you can figure how rambunctious those elves get after a night in a tavern, worse than irishmen, they are. I see we have a conformation person aboard.
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Post by kinnidi on Nov 8, 2009 23:32:37 GMT -5
i raise rare white airedales. they are pure, too. i live on the north pole and they are better hunters if they are white. i hunt polar bears, snow hares, and the occaisional arctic fox. i even sold one to santa claus for tons of money, because they are so rare. he uses his to herd his reindeer. sometimes he uses him to herd his elves too. you can figure how rambunctious those elves get after a night in a tavern, worse than irishmen, they are. I see we have a conformation person aboard. nope, just mocking what an absurd thread this happens to be.
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Post by hicntry on Nov 8, 2009 23:43:37 GMT -5
I see we have a conformation person aboard. nope, just mocking what an absurd thread this happens to be. Why? Seems to be a topic many keep bringing up through the years. Now there is some of the correspondence being made public at last. Personally, I had no idea that a black actually made it to the show ring, which I find interesting. Don't you think it is possible for a breed to throw an all black airedale. If so, You may find it just as interesting that breeding black to black will throw black and tans but np blacks. You have to breed a black to a black and tan to get blacks....if I am understanding this right. You don't find that interesting? You don't find it interesting that Goliath, a 132lb airedale came from show stock? I think it is pretty interesting overall but I already knew that really big dales were produce by conformation folks because I had a show bred that was 100 lbs. He was the brother to my original dale, Elizabeth.
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Post by kinnidi on Nov 9, 2009 0:14:25 GMT -5
no, i actually don't dispute the fact that an airedale could possibly throw back to a color other than black and tan saddleback. i just don't see a point in all of the third grade level drama over the issue. southern does a damn good job acting the victim, when in fact she happens to be the aggressor. i don't dispute the fact that her airedales could possibly be pure, i dispute the fact that she refuses to accept it is not a recogonized color. if you can't register a black one, it should not matter whether it's pure or not. many breeds throughout history throw back to colors other than the "breed standard", but that doesn't make them acceptable to be registered regardless of their pure status. i have seen some damn good lacy dogs kept out of registration due to a white snip on the nose and too much white on the toes. yes i'd say they didn't do the breed any favors refusing the dogs from a performance standpoint, but on the other hand, the dogs do need to meet a physical and visual criteria as well, to ensure uniformity and consistancy. when you give breeders like southern an inch they take a mile. i can't say i agree with the akc, and the show breeders on many issues. i can say i feel a breed of dogs needs to be uniform, consistant, and balanced.
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Post by jespinoza on Nov 9, 2009 1:04:19 GMT -5
Maybe it would have helped if breed standards also included the ability of a dog to perform and do the job it was intended to do as a must not an option. color and size may have had a broader range. Just a thought not even sure if it makes sense!!!
John
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Post by hicntry on Nov 9, 2009 1:24:38 GMT -5
no, i actually don't dispute the fact that an airedale could possibly throw back to a color other than black and tan saddleback. i just don't see a point in all of the third grade level drama over the issue. southern does a damn good job acting the victim, when in fact she happens to be the aggressor. i don't dispute the fact that her airedales could possibly be pure, i dispute the fact that she refuses to accept it is not a recogonized color. if you can't register a black one, it should not matter whether it's pure or not. many breeds throughout history throw back to colors other than the "breed standard", but that doesn't make them acceptable to be registered regardless of their pure status. i have seen some damn good lacy dogs kept out of registration due to a white snip on the nose and too much white on the toes. yes i'd say they didn't do the breed any favors refusing the dogs from a performance standpoint, but on the other hand, the dogs do need to meet a physical and visual criteria as well, to ensure uniformity and consistancy. when you give breeders like southern an inch they take a mile. i can't say i agree with the akc, and the show breeders on many issues. i can say i feel a breed of dogs needs to be uniform, consistant, and balanced. Ok, I can accept that better than your first post. I also agree that many breeds have colors that are not acceptable for registration. I think part of the problem here is not that the dispute is that they are not pure....whether or not they are registerable. Not being registerable obviously does not mean they are not pure. I don't have a dog in this fight but it is interesting....to me anyway. John makes a point in the following post also. Because of the obvious lack of being able to perform in the function an airedale, I find the show dogs sadly lacking in the overall standard. I would like to see them split like the show labs and the field labs. Let's face it, the show lines are no more airedale, even though they may have the appearance, than a mutt.
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Post by jespinoza on Nov 9, 2009 1:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks Don, that is exactly what I was trying to say, I just could'nt find the right words.
John
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Post by kinnidi on Nov 9, 2009 1:42:46 GMT -5
Maybe it would have helped if breed standards also included the ability of a dog to perform and do the job it was intended to do as a must not an option. color and size may have had a broader range. Just a thought not even sure if it makes sense!!! John that is the problem. when you select for color (black) because it is a novelty you will have oppurtunity cost. any examples would include performance, size, health and soundness etc. i'm not saying all blacks have those problems, but i am saying you will eventually sacrifice one thing for another. just look at what they have in the show ring airedale of today, a fairly useless hunting dog. when you breed for performance long enough, form will eventually follow, a standard of consistancy. when you stack the genetics of your best performing individuals in the form of line breeding you'll end up with prepotent sires/dams that "rubber stamp" characteristics to their offspring. Now what? you begin to develop consistancy in type and structure. you begin to see a common color type, a common body shape and so forth. the reasons we have such a range of color and size is because breeders are selecting for just that....color and size. by the way i am aware that a strain developed in rough canyon country, is going to appear different than a strain developed in the swamps.
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Post by Undercover Cowboy on Nov 9, 2009 7:50:22 GMT -5
What kennels have been breeding for performance and if they have been breeding for performance what criteria have they used in there program? I'll say that most raise pet quality dogs and breed for size and then because of there size call them hunting and advertise them as such. If you breed for a certain physical appearance even if it is appropriate for a hunting dog aren't you just as bad as the show breeders because you aren't testing at an older age for what ever... nose, treeing, speed on a track catching ability or even retrieving instinct what ever the case may be..
Hell I found an advertisement where a a breeder claimed people used there Airedales for hunting everything including Elk...
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