GD Solution 1: Selecting a Breeder

[ed]

Curt the major quality I want in a breeder is honesty. Without honesty
titles on their dogs,country of origin etc is meaningless.Unfortunately honest breeders can also be kennel blind. For these reasons its to the beginners advantage to get help in their search.

[alex]

since i'll be looking for a new puppy (schutzhund prospect) next year i'm very interested in this thread!

what are a few major differences in temperament between american and german bred airedales?

[hicntry]

Don has never been around an import. I have always considered the German bred dogs to have more propensity to bite people and that was, largely, why they were more successful at man work. I am now told that they have no more propensity to bite than any other dogs. Obviously I have to conclude that the reason German bred appears to be more successful in the man work, is that percentage wise, simply more people use them. If 80% of the airedales used are of German background it would be obvious that they will "appear" to be more successful. Possibly also, the better trainers are enamored with German breeding which will also lead to higher percentages of success.

[ed]

My experience with German dogs is that they are no different from American dogs that are bred for similar work.

With the German Airedale , the majority of German Dales are bred as companion /pet dogs with only a few LINES being work tested. It is these lines that are imported here to use for the same sport. Look at the pedigree's of these dogs. Often both parents and four grandparents are titled dogs. The character of these dogs certainly can be found in American dogs but the search will be in a more random population.

I believe what you are breeding for in working line of Dales is an ABSENCE of certain traits. Specifically shyness,weak nerves(fearfulness) and low energy.

My wife accuses me of having for twenty plus years inflicted on her the most obnoxious puppies known to man. But hey, those high drive full of themselves hell raisers given a little guidance can turn out to be great dogs.
Be aware sometimes they are not great pets.

[maugh]

It is important to identify the kind of work you want to do and then start looking at lines of Airedales that do this work.
I think it is important to find a breeder that has experience in the general kind of work you want to pursue. Otherwise the breeder might make a bad choice for you simply out of ignorance.
When I import dogs from Germany I work with a breeder who has been a close personal friend for 20 years. She respects me and I know I can count on getting a good dog from her. I personally would not import a dog from an unknown breeder. I have had Hiltrud check out other litters and have had her son in law (who is a KFT Schutzhund judge) check out dogs, e.g. Ferris von Sellhornshof for possible import. But I would never import a dog out of the blue.
Just because people here have imported dogs does not mean they know what they are doing. They could have unknowingly imported "rejects" and if they are not active trainers or don't do any work with their dogs, the flaws in these dogs may never become known.
It is through working with or training dogs that we find what they are truly made of. And as I believe Don said, when you find one you really like, try to get a dog from its parents.
I do not think you gain much information from a "puppy aptitude test". The sampling theorem would tell you it is sheer insanity to try to predict what you're getting on the basis of a single sample.
And has others have already said, the key factor to look for in a breeder is "honesty" and also someone who takes a good hard look at their dogs.
Maugh

[Ryan]

Is there any proof that German bloodlines are more apt to be obedient and willing workers on a whole? It seems to me that if the Germans have been testing and selecting for highly trainable dogs over time that there would be a higher percentage... any truth to this?

How about defense drive - North American vs German?

[alex]

Ed,

How many known american breeders that breed specifically for schutzhund and/or have more than one generations of schutzhund parents in their blood lines?

[maugh]

ryan said:

Is there any proof that German bloodlines are more apt to be obedient and willing workers on a whole? It seems to me that if the Germans have been testing and selecting for highly trainable dogs over time that there would be a higher percentage... any truth to this?

How about defense drive - North American vs German?

It is hard to generalize. There are German Airedales that have working backgrounds that are borderline out of control, others that are borderline freaks. You really have to know the dog and its background.
I have had good luck with both American and German dogs. I have seen some German and also some American dogs that I wouldn't want to own.

Both my SchH 3's were males out of American show breeding. Both were/are fine obedience dogs as well. Turk is retired from Schutzhund now and getting ready for his jr upland hunt test at age 10.

Maugh

[ed]

alex said:

Ed,

How many known american breeders that breed specifically for schutzhund and/or have more than one generations of schutzhund parents in their blood lines?

Alex there are probably less than 5 breeders in the US specifically breeding according to the criteria you asked about. I think there are also suitable dogs out of untitled American lines.
An Ohio dog out of Cabin Hill x Mooreland was the flat out naturally strongest Airedale for this work I had ever seen. He came from a fellow that ran hounds and bred just a few Airedales. The dog is in Louisiana now neutered and being used as property guard and home protection dog.

If you are interested in german working lines there is a litter in Texas that may be of interest . I'll wait for the person who has direct knowledge of the litter to pipe up.

[stew12]

ed said:

alex said:

Ed,

How many known american breeders that breed specifically for schutzhund and/or have more than one generations of schutzhund parents in their blood lines?

Alex there are probably less than 5 breeders in the US specifically breeding according to the criteria you asked about. I think there are also suitable dogs out of untitled American lines.
An Ohio dog out of Cabin Hill x Mooreland was the flat out naturally strongest Airedale for this work I had ever seen. He came from a fellow that ran hounds and bred just a few Airedales. The dog is in Louisiana now neutered and being used as property guard and home protection dog.

If you are interested in german working lines there is a litter in Texas that may be of interest . I'll wait for the person who has direct knowledge of the litter to pipe up.

Alex

Roland Gomez has a litter. Luci daughter to a Lucky Boy grandson. Should have a few good candidates. If your interested, I'll get you in touch with Roland.

Stew

[stew12]

ryan said:

Is there any proof that German bloodlines are more apt to be obedient and willing workers on a whole? It seems to me that if the Germans have been testing and selecting for highly trainable dogs over time that there would be a higher percentage... any truth to this?

How about defense drive - North American vs German?

Ryan

No guarantees. Just what has been on the board of late.
The testing and titles improve the odds of getting a good candidate.

Stew

[alex]

Stew,

Would like to talk to Ronald, thanks.

[stew]

curt said:

GD Solution 1: Selecting a Breeder

Selecting a Schutzhund Breeder is the first step in obtaining your Schutzhund Airedale.

This is certainly open for discussion/comment, especially from Airedale Breeders.

I like Don's approach to breeding: if the two dogs that produce a champion are bred again, then the odds will be greater for producing another champion, rather than mating the two dogs with other mates.

Carrying that logic to Schutzhund Airedales: If the parents are SchH titled, then the odds will be greater for having a pup that is capable of being trained for Schutzhund.

I don't think that this would rule out obtaining a Schutzhund capable dog from either a pet or hunting breeder. It simply implies that the odds will be in favor of getting a pup from proven stock.

German bred vs. American bred....Again, the odds of finding a Schutzhund pup will be greater in Germany than a US breeder, simply because of the number of breeding dogs in Germany.

I know Maugh and Stew have imported Airedales from Germany, so perhaps they will chime in and give their opinions.

Curt

Since 1992 I've imported 6 dogs. Not a very large group to make a cast in stone statement. Of the 6, 4 were very good dogs, one was a good tracker and obedience dog, but not very good in protection. The last was a total disaster. I would say the odds are still pretty good.

The one thing that's not said very often is titles mean nothing if the dog is no good. Within a given group of titled dogs you have 1. CLUB DOGS ( not able to perform outside the security of the club) 2. Well trained (meaning professionally train or a very good trainer that has the know how to get there dog thru) 3 Maybe not suited for sport (meaning the dog can get through the routine if controlled well, but can easily slip down a slippery slope) 4. Marginal ( this dogs nerves get in the way. this would be the dog trying to bolt back to the truck) etc...

So my advise is you need to see for yourself! Learn to know what your looking at. Go visit!
Learn about the dogs in a pedigree. Look at brothers and sisters.

Stew

[stew]

alex said:

Stew,

Would like to talk to Ronald, thanks.

Alex

E-mail me. I'll get you in touch with Roland

Stew

[alex]

stew said:

alex said:

Stew,

Would like to talk to Ronald, thanks.

Alex

E-mail me. I'll get you in touch with Roland

Stew

Stew,

Your email address is hidden. Why dont you email me your email address - [e-mail]

Thanks,
-Alex-