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Post by Mark Baldassarre on Jan 14, 2006 12:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by southern on Jan 14, 2006 14:28:26 GMT -5
how cute
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Summit Forge
Hunter/worker
Forge with Ruffed Grouse
Posts: 124
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Post by Summit Forge on Jan 14, 2006 14:55:11 GMT -5
Mark,
It is my understanding that loud sounds prior to approx. 6 weeks helps condition pups but that they are not capable of a fear or startle response until later. What is the truth...breeders?
Ron
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Post by Mark B on Jan 14, 2006 15:40:46 GMT -5
No that's not correct. The programing period is probably most important up to 6wks. Pups will absolutely startle prior.
The effects will be more dramatic and apparent later though.
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Post by Ms. Betty on Jan 14, 2006 16:41:09 GMT -5
A sound dog doesn't seem likely to startle anyway from what I have experienced. I don't condition pups and it doesn't seem to bother the real solid dogs even when older. The less solid ones definitely startle.....but after shooting a few squirrels and giving them to the dogs, they quickly look forward to the shot and the sight of the gun because they relate it to good things. Keeping in mind a 44 mag makes me jump if I am not ready for it. Overall, I would say conditioning is beneficial to all the pups but it, once again, makes it harder to pick the most unshakable of the litter I would think.
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Summit Forge
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Post by Summit Forge on Jan 14, 2006 18:32:47 GMT -5
Is there a difference between a fear response and a startle response?
Ron
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Post by jsf13 on Jan 14, 2006 18:57:49 GMT -5
"The startle response to sound apparent at three weeks accelerates and appears as the earliest indication of a fear response at five weeks." Another Look at the 49th Day By Dr. Ed Bailey edbailey@uoguelph.ca Printed in Gun Dog Magazine First Printing April/ May, 1994 Second Printing, April/May, 1998 Complete article here; my.execpc.com/~crzy1ess/49daymyth.htm |
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Summit Forge
Hunter/worker
Forge with Ruffed Grouse
Posts: 124
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Post by Summit Forge on Jan 14, 2006 20:38:59 GMT -5
Very interesting jsf13. Good post.
Ron
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Post by Mark Baldassarre on Jan 14, 2006 20:43:01 GMT -5
Yes Joe that's more like it.
Don, the idea as a breeder is -to determine which ones are the spooky,shy,crappy etc. ones and place them accordingly.
Also to not use them in a breeding program. The less desirable pups should be culled via spay/neuter agreement. I wouldn't leave that up tothe new owners. Most people think their shitter is the greatest dog in the world!
Mark
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Post by hicntry on Jan 14, 2006 21:52:42 GMT -5
Yes Joe that's more like it. Don, the idea as a breeder is -to determine which ones are the spooky,shy,crappy etc. ones and place them accordingly. Also to not use them in a breeding program. The less desirable pups should be culled via spay/neuter agreement. I wouldn't leave that up tothe new owners. Most people think their shitter is the greatest dog in the world! Now we do agree on that Mark. That is pretty much why I leave them be until they are 4 weeks old because every reaction you see is what the dog is... not conditioning. Mark |
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Post by Mark B on Jan 15, 2006 0:28:12 GMT -5
Yes Don,
I understand. What I'm doing is conditioning these dogs and making note of their reactions to different stimuli at the same time.
Any shitters will be disclosed and fixed; both through my conditioning and a vet's SURGERY!
The fixing on my part {conditioning} will ensure that a pet home still gets a functional dog.
Leaving a dog w/o exposure for too long will simply ruin it. I'd rather salvage the dog, place it properly and never allow it to breed.
I can't say I see any shitters in this litter. Some are stronger than others- as in any litter.
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Post by Mark B on Jan 15, 2006 0:30:42 GMT -5
Ron,
The startle response can be an idication of a fear response to come.
When they are real little there is no "fear" per say.
Mark
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Post by southern on Jan 15, 2006 10:40:56 GMT -5
I usually start shooting off a cap gun when they are 2 wks of age, by the time they are 5-6 weeks, they ignore the sound. Every breeder has their own method
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Post by Mark Baldassarre on Jan 15, 2006 17:17:19 GMT -5
sounds good So.!
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Summit Forge
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Post by Summit Forge on Jan 15, 2006 19:48:05 GMT -5
Ron, The startle response can be an indication of a fear response to come. When they are real little there is no "fear" per say. Mark Mark, It seems to me that one would want to see a startle response to help confirm that the pup is normal... can hear properly and has a good functional neurological system etc. Being startled and being fearful to me are entirely different. However, if not handled properly it does seem that one could evolve into the other. Ron |
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