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Post by thistlesdale on Nov 9, 2009 9:13:14 GMT -5
if you can't register a black one, it should not matter whether it's pure or not. nonsense the dog is what matters not the registration i feel a breed of dogs needs to be uniform, consistant, and balanced. that doesn't work in the field some airedale kennels select for big game, others for birds, others for protection work, etc etc etc this creates a remarkable amount of variation within the breed selectively breeding black and tan is no better than selectively breeding black for the sake of genetic diversity, I hope both will continue on into the future a showdaler saying "airedales shouldn't be black" is no different than wing shooter saying "airedales shouldn't hunt big game"
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mb
Hunter/worker
Posts: 91
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Post by mb on Nov 9, 2009 9:37:14 GMT -5
Tell ya what, I have a solution to all of this bickering about the "blacks and reds". Someone posted about a D.N.A. test that was around a hundred bucks. I'll pay half of that and maybe the rest of the board can kick-in the other fifty annd we can settle this...Mike B.
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Post by jespinoza on Nov 9, 2009 9:43:19 GMT -5
Good point CV, but it seems to me that, unlike other dog breeds, the airedale has such a broad range of hunting ability that it would be up to a responsible breeder to let you know what abilities their dogs have been tested for and what traits they have been breeding for. If the blacks and reds are hunt tested, why not use them as long as it is just a color trait not a total variance of the breed. I prefer the blacks and tans but thats not to say that if a black is a good hunter and you are breeding for hunting why not?
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Post by southern on Nov 9, 2009 9:55:05 GMT -5
Why? Seems to be a topic many keep bringing up through the years. Now there is some of the correspondence being made public at last. Personally, I had no idea that a black actually made it to the show ring, which I find interesting. Don't you think it is possible for a breed to throw an all black airedale. If so, You may find it just as interesting that breeding black to black will throw black and tans but np blacks. You have to breed a black to a black and tan to get blacks....if I am understanding this right. You don't find that interesting? You don't find it interesting that Goliath, a 132lb airedale came from show stock? I think it is pretty interesting overall but I already knew that really big dales were produce by conformation folks because I had a show bred that was 100 lbs. He was the brother to my original dale, Elizabeth. « Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:49pm by hicntry » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
The way it was worked, we constantly bred black to B&T for 5 generations. Goliath was not the only stud we used for this. At 5th generation, we bred a full circle, black to black. (According to all genetic researches, DNA experts, and everyone else in the breeding world, the strain of blacks became pure by 6th generation). We had a litter of 8 blacks to 1 b&t. This is the litter my Black Hawk and Carls ROC came from. Reds cropped up in the black to b&t breedings through out the 5 generation operation. Blacks reproduce black, reds reproduce reds. Plain words, we took a recessive genentic pattern and turned it into a dominant.
As far as being the center of the which hunt back then, I was.
MB- you pay for the DNA, results may suprise you
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Post by thistlesdale on Nov 9, 2009 9:57:11 GMT -5
DNA won't settle anything, because the AKC doesn't care.
They don't like black airedales. Case closed...
it sure looks like an airedale to me
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Post by southern on Nov 9, 2009 9:59:46 GMT -5
Is'nt she pretty? Her name is Nova, She is a 9th generation black.
They don't like black airedale's. Case closed... Thats covered in the story...............
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Post by thistlesdale on Nov 9, 2009 10:21:08 GMT -5
According to all genetic researches, DNA experts, and everyone else in the breeding world, the strain of blacks became pure by 6th generation) this is where the ignorance of the anti's shines through
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Post by Undercover Cowboy on Nov 9, 2009 10:55:19 GMT -5
I would pay I don't care if the AKC will register them or not.. I owned a kennel of Airedales at one time that the AKC wouldn't register.. thats not the point...and as far as hunting goes who cares what color they are as long as they hunt if that is what you want. I have dogs of all colors right now and none of them are registered anywhere but I know what kind of dogs they are and where they come from and what they were used for..people claim there dogs hunt.. anybody can and then try to sell the dogs as hunting dogs...wheres the proof. If I was going to shell out $1200.00 bucks for a dog that's suppose to be a hunting dog you better be able to proof it to me.. if you can't and your asking that much money for a "rare black Airedale" then your just selling a color. Come on you can't have it both ways.. I think the point of this whole deal is if this was just a marketing scam, another way to make money and if it is and they are pure Airedales more power to you if there are buyers willing to pay for them just because the are rare black or all red and still pure Airedales then that's great.. but if someone crossed a Labrador or something else to get these all black Airedales and then claim they are pure.. that's BS and I believe that is what most people are bitching about.. So after that article was posted instead of all the drama, postings, magazine articles, affidavits Phds and reverends... is there actual DNA proof.. thats all
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Post by Wolfer on Nov 9, 2009 11:33:45 GMT -5
The thing that gets me Besides all the drama.... With all the AIredales Being bred complete with Blacks and reds( little irsh terrier can gain you more red and retain the terrier traits and looks) How come the only breeders you see with Blacks and reds come from southerns Kennels..... Don straight up in all the years you been breeding How man all black or red have you had? With todays Marketing of high breds people would be all over this especially if they were PURE. There are enough back yard breeders and Puppy mills out their that this would be a HOT comodity look how the russian terrier is starting to take off.
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Post by hicntry on Nov 9, 2009 11:45:54 GMT -5
And when we are done with the blacks...let's get the slickies straightened out. Then we can all worry about the American Wirehaires and where did all that white come from. After that, maybe the pres.....never mind....we won't go there. ;D
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Post by hicntry on Nov 9, 2009 11:49:11 GMT -5
All my pups have been black! ;D
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Post by Wolfer on Nov 9, 2009 12:19:41 GMT -5
Ill leave that ALone How many have stayed black?
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Post by hicntry on Nov 9, 2009 12:27:14 GMT -5
None
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Post by thistlesdale on Nov 9, 2009 12:44:23 GMT -5
if someone crossed a Labrador or something else to get these all black Airedales and then claim they are pure.. that's BS 6 generations later, every last drop of lab would be bred out of them
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Post by Undercover Cowboy on Nov 9, 2009 13:01:57 GMT -5
Except the color?
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