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Steady
Jun 25, 2007 10:08:31 GMT -5
Post by frankyme on Jun 25, 2007 10:08:31 GMT -5
What comes first steady to shot, or steady to flush? I've read a little bit, but would like more if anyone has book suggestions. Steady to shot seems like it would be easier to begin from a logistics stand point, don't need to set up a bird necessarily. As for steady to flush I'd like to be able to reuse pigeons. What have people used for tethers or weights that have worked well?
Steady to shot plan. Walk in the field/woods. Dog on long lead. Shoot the pop gun and make him sit. Hope he starts to anticipate the sit command.
Steady to flush plan: Dizzy up and plant a couple pigeons that are unable to fly very far and work the field with his lead on. When he flushes the bird give him a yank and command (whistle) sit. If he does so quickly, his reward is the retrieve. If not I'll send my wife or one of my kids out to secure the bird.
Frank
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phil
Hunter/worker
Posts: 205
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Steady
Jun 26, 2007 10:40:35 GMT -5
Post by phil on Jun 26, 2007 10:40:35 GMT -5
The gunfire becomes a command not to chase in this process. Currently I'm steading some 18 dogs allbreeds, 4 GSP's 4 Brits, 6 Springers,2 Clumbers,1 Field Spaniel and 1 Airedale. Each of these dogs were started in the yard when the decision was made to begin this process. All dogs were started on an elevated surface, a table top. first the blank pistol was fired and then a dead pigeon was thrown.. Dog was either release to make retrieve or corrrected for leaving the table to soon. When these dogs were deemed reliable to wait for the retrieve command, their training sessions were moved to ground, still in the yard.. Gunfire,thrown bird,release or correction... As each dog has grown in confidence levels to perform this task correctly. their training sessions were moved back out to the training field. In training field each dog recieved a reminder course with thrown deads and gunfire.. Some times the gunfire would preced the thrown bird and sometimes the thrown bird would proceed the gunfire... Pointing dogs and the flushing-retrievers were still not allowed to find live pigeons. At this time all dogs are now allowed to find birds again whether it be pointing or flushing,.. Many timing issues on the part of the handler is very essential now at the point of contact with the presense or bird scent... more on this later have a dog coming in for training He has arrived early!!
Hal
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phil
Hunter/worker
Posts: 205
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Steady
Jun 26, 2007 12:26:50 GMT -5
Post by phil on Jun 26, 2007 12:26:50 GMT -5
Sorry about the delay Client has left, pup is with Me.. The process in the field is very critical in handler involvement. The use of weakened or tetherd bird is not an option. When Working the steady flushing dog I also want use the strongest birds that have available whether they be pigeons or pheasnts. Nothing about the steadying process is gained by a dog catching a bird or being confronted with a "sucker" bird that draws the dog off his seat,at the point of contact. Tethered or weak birds are fine for pups being started , however this advanced work it calls for advance criteria. Also remember that flushed bird needs to be shot properly for the dog and handler to develop the proper release of the dog on the retrieve/or call back if the bird is missed. And during the process we will miss birds on purpose to test where the dog is at on his learning curve of the whole program. If the dog breaks and chases a missed flyer then I would back up on the training process and reemphasis some of his earlier conditioning.. Normally I budget 45-50 pigeons for each dog that is in the steadying program..Spread out over 10-12 weeks.. Now we reintroduce pheasants or chukars to the mix a whole new level of inducement... It is a layering process of training that is quite complicated.. And I have not even address at what levels of force are needed to obtain compliance to program. E-collar? check-cord? or like my own dogs(spaniels) I train naked, voice correction only Frank, I offer workshops on this subject weekly and continuously thru out the year. It will be a topic of conversation and demonstration at the Aug 25th Hunt Test and Workshop here in Three Rivers this summer.. The clock is ticking!!!
Hal
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Steady
Jun 26, 2007 12:43:06 GMT -5
Post by frankyme on Jun 26, 2007 12:43:06 GMT -5
Thanks Hal. That is good info. I've already been incorporating gunfire into retrieves but it was prior to any pressure training. He knows to start looking when the shot goes off it shouldn't take to long for him to learn to sit when the shot goes off. The pond we go to by the house is a State Rec area that only allows "shooting" during hunting season. Don't know if that includes blanks but I didn't want to p*ss anyone off. Went to Highland dog training grounds last weekend and the NAVDA club had the site reserved for training. I talked to few guys and got, "Is that a hunting dog? " It seemed tome me as our kid was not appreciated So I left. We'll be back when we have some more skills mastered . Another concern I have: Teddy hasn't seen a live game bird in a few months. I've been doing the retrieve to hand training. Up through using cold birds (still need to find a good place for the pigeon trap). From your message I shouldn't be using live birds until he's mastered the steady to shot. Should I take him out for some fun a few times to a preserve and ensure he brings the fresh killed game to hand before starting the steady Teddy training? The idea being it will keep him eager for live birds. Frank
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Steady
Jun 26, 2007 12:50:09 GMT -5
Post by frankyme on Jun 26, 2007 12:50:09 GMT -5
;D Hal, looks like we were typing at the same time! I was planning on attending in August. We're working on dead bird retrieve as well so we might even be ready for Senior test by then, if not the seminar is well worth the trip. I'll give you a call and see if I can make it out before then to one of your multiple breed seminars. Thanks again. Frank
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phil
Hunter/worker
Posts: 205
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Steady
Jun 26, 2007 15:44:40 GMT -5
Post by phil on Jun 26, 2007 15:44:40 GMT -5
Hi Frankie Once the steadying process has begun you should be very careful about just hunting your dog for "fun". This process is really the 3rd leg of the "3 legged stool". Which is .. Teach...Force..Maintain Standards. If your committment to steadying is not 100% You will probable encounter all kinds of set backs in development.. If you plan on entering the hunt test at the senior level in August you probable should wait until after the hunting season Fall of 07 to start the steadying process. If you decide to start the process now then chances are you will not be ready to test in August... Though you may be ready to do some hunting with a steady dog in the Fallof 07(Reference "the clock is ticking" previous post).. there are some huge hurtles for Teddy to overcome in this process...You do not believe me? ? How many Airedales work consistently every day as a steady to wing and Shot dog??? I only know of ONE!...Soon though I know there will be TWO And he is on schedule to quailfy at the Master Flushing level next March...This type of training requires that kind of foresight... I guarantee you, Madonna and Gangster never get birds because we think it will be FUN! They only get birds when they Maintain the Standards that we Have set for them (the 3rd Leg of the Stool)... For example it is 4:30pm here now.. This evening about 5:00 my Tuesday group will be arriving of the 5-6 dogs that will attend Only those dogs that are perfectly steady will allowed to go make a retrieve. The dogs that are not steady will be given a correction and a week to think about that correction until their next bird contact.. of 6 dogs that I am thinking of (Tuesday nites group) all of them have the ability to do this kind of world class work. Namely retrieve on command only And be called off if the bird is missed and continue hunting for the next bird.. fairly tall order for dogs that have a ton of bird drive yet the respect of their handlers to do the work for the handler and not themselves(the dog's)... I cannot and will not address the situation at Highland with the Navhda people ,..... breed bias is a huge stumbling block for any body that thinks they can train a dog...Hell a German Shephard can be taught the work that really good Labradors are expected to do. and that is at the all-age level of Retriever competitions.. I would have gone out of business a long time ago if I trained dogs solely based on breed or appearances LOL Well you know where I live I wish you and Teddy the best Hal
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