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Post by doitallairedales on Nov 17, 2006 13:54:46 GMT -5
Glad to hear your thoughts, Alex. Also glad to hear them put forth respectfully and hope my opinion(s) are equal to that.
While I have no doubt some trainers are able to use the e-collar in a positive manner, at least at this point those trainers are few and far between. I'd only trust a trainer who has developed a good training around it and even then, only as a last-chance kind of situation. There is a group training for urban SAR using e-collar methods and I have yet to see any of their dogs be better performers than other k9s.
I will say all of my personal experience with e-collars has been for deer-running, a situation where we don't even bother with the low settings!
TC
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Post by doitallairedales on Nov 18, 2006 8:00:45 GMT -5
Hey Curt,
It's been my observation (observation = opinion only) in Schutzhund that a large portion of the dogs working in it are soft so it isn't just Airedales. If you asked any good helper, he'd probably tell you that. I haven't seen any of the higher-level training clubs that compete internationally but, as Schutzhund has become a bit more mainstream and popular, the average SchH dog has become softer and softer.
Maybe it is an Airedale thing about obedience though. I've never had to resort to an e-collar for obedience.
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Post by ronstout on Nov 18, 2006 11:57:41 GMT -5
Hey Curt, It's been my observation (observation = opinion only) in Schutzhund that a large portion of the dogs working in it are soft so it isn't just Airedales. If you asked any good helper, he'd probably tell you that. I haven't seen any of the higher-level training clubs that compete internationally but, as Schutzhund has become a bit more mainstream and popular, the average SchH dog has become softer and softer. Maybe it is an Airedale thing about obedience though. I've never had to resort to an e-collar for obedience. DIA...I agree with your observations...but no..it is not just an Airedale thing...it is a TERRIER thing. I have owned just about every terrier breed and damned few of them are easily taught to do anything unless and until they are motivated to do it. They generally do 'it' better when they are led to think 'it' is their idea. One noted exception is to chase and kill anything that creaps, slithers or crawls. RON ESQ
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Post by danwolf on Dec 6, 2006 11:36:13 GMT -5
Great topic. I'm a huge fan of e collars, but I run my dogs wide for fur, not hound wide, but- usually 100-200 yds minimin depending upon the land. I just bought a two mile range trashbreaker collar set up. Now I chill and give them a toot, 5 minutes and they are back to me, (God willing & the creek don't rise), ... But, ecollars were an absolute disaster w/force fetching. I followed Doubs video to a "T", and when I broke out the collar w/just the lowest vibration, they freaked out, and Apache nearly knocked over the table, he freaked, lol. No good for me for that situation. Never again for me, for that type of training. Now, here's a classic one for terriers and dog trainers. I usually hike my dogs off lead, and occasionally we see strangers, dog walkers, etc, so I buzz the dogs lightly and they return, usually after a few zips. So, with Apache, the ecollar worked perfectly, - now, he stops as soon as he sees a stranger and pops up and barks in place, a good strong who the hell are you bark. Which he is serious about. Then he returns to me when I call him. Perfect. But, with Lenape, he started going right back to us looking scared and like I don't want shocked. Now, fortunately he's following apache's lead, but it definately backfired in a way at first, - yes he came w/out bothering the other people, dogs,etc., but he didn't look very menacing or very protective when doing it, which is part of his job, especially in woods, night, etc. So, individuaL quirks are interesting... But, e-collars work great for me for range control & for some deer, and poodles...most of the time..terrain certainly shortens their range I've found. cheers, dw
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Post by doitallairedales on Dec 8, 2006 10:24:11 GMT -5
Depending where you hike and how deserted it is, a 'who the hell are you' bark is probably going to get you in some trouble...or at least, get you some dirty looks. I rarely take my male GSD hiking anymore unless I know it is a nearly-deserted spot. I can hardly relax taking him with me, I am so looking ahead anticipating other hikers. Takes alot of fun out of it and other hikers don't deserve to have a dog challenge them.
I'll try to tell a story and hope it comes off as humorous. Years ago, I was walking my ridgeback thru a small patch of woods that served as a cut-through for a shopping center. I noticed a guy approaching who, at first notice, seemed to be having some sort of spastic fit. Turns out he had a walkman on and was really into his music. Well, my completely placid ridgeback saw those "dance steps" as a threat and, with my jaw agape, she went after that guy like nobody's business. I got her back but there was no stopping that guy as he raced the other way. I would have apologized if he wasn't so damn fast!
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