Post by oksaradt on Oct 31, 2007 22:09:28 GMT -5
Wolfer stated:
Any and all Jim... I have considered going back to Sar many times and traing one of these Knotheads But then I Look at the time I have the time that goes into training and the Need in this area and cant justify it. the local unit has about 5 searches a year and of those maybe 1 is a body search and 2 are water searches. so ya figure over the life of a dog it might if he is lucky have 35 searches. Big difference from what I Did in WY. A slow year would be 100+ searches With half being Multi searches at the same time dog wernet Only Justified they were Praised by all. We had 3 dogs in our unit and 3 Pups up and coming. Sure makes avalnche rescue nice.
SAR varies a lot from area to area. Avalanche dogs are a specialty all their own. The need for them is obvious to the people that live in that area. For the other areas of SAR, the call-outs and use vary widely from California and Virginia where SAR is highly organized to most everywhere else where SAR is highly political and often doesn't follow logic.
In my area, HR dogs will end up getting the most calls for several reasons. Usually when someone comes up lost, everyone bands together and tries to help. Lots of man-to-man searches take place. L.E. will try their tracking dogs if they have them or can get them from the closest prison. By the time area search dogs are considered, welll.....it's been weeks and the clues grow cold. A lot of times HR dogs might be called just to show the family that every avenue is being exhausted.
From talking to lots of groups around the country, it's fairly common that SAR dog groups alienate L.E. and each other because of hidden agendas or a wierd sense of turf issues. My wife woke me up about five years ago when I was watching the local news and another group pulled a bonehead move. I was cracking up when she pointed out to me, "ya know, when they look bad, you all look bad."
She was right. And, ya know, the real motivation should be simply helping people regardless of who gets the credit.
Sadly, many teams and handlers want to help so badly that they often lose sight when they aren't ready to do the job. They lose sight that they might do more harm than good. A dog team that's not ready declares an area clear when someone or something really was there. Or, a dog team suggests something or someone is there and nothing is.
L.E. quickly comes to the conclusion that civilian groups are more a liability than help in several ways. Some SAR groups just want to get on the camera. Some want to take charge and tell L.E. how to do their job. If a civilian gets hurt while searching, the civic entity has to worry if they are going to get sued. The local group I belong to has carried their own liability insurance for many years.
And, for some reason, SAR groups seem to be magnets for people that need something in their life that has nothing to do with working a dog. A woman that did support for myself and another dog handler some years back has apparently got herself banned from several municipalities. She left our group years back, much to our relief. She had a lab that she only trained when she came to group training. She has since showed up on scenes and tried to take control without the training or the credentials. Just off the top of my head, I'd say for 40 people that come to a SAR dog group to join, maybe 1 will stick it out to be deployable. Many just want to be able to tell their friends that they are involved without ever having to do the real grunt work. The woman that I learned much of what I do with dogs preached ethics at me for years, yet she couldn't follow her own rules, ended up getting convicted for lying about planting evidence. She got to spend a year in the same prison as Martha Stewart. We can only figure she did it because she loved the press and she loved pulling the wool over L.E.'s eyes. It gave many good dog handlers a stain on unblemished work.
And, then there are the group politics that seem to follow dog people whatever they do. Some groups will dump you unless you only train their way. We've learned through painful experience that we don't care how someone gets themselves and their dogs to the point where they can pass our tests, that the performance is truly what matters. We have our ways of training, but at the end of training you are taking your dog home with you and you have to train it the rest of the week. SAR dog handling is only for those that love it for doing it, the obsessed. True, your dog might end up saving a life or giving a family closure and that's definitely a good thing, but it can't be the driving force. Even with area search for live subjects where search management actually has a good idea of where the subject is....well, only one dog team is gong to make the find. The rest will be working clear areas. It's the same with HRs. If there are multiple teams, unless you have widely scattered remains, most areas are going to be negative. If you don't enjoy going out just to go out and work with the dog to your utmost capabilities, then you'll be miserable when it's 18'F outside, winds in the 30's, possible ice storm, and 0300 when you are deployed.
I can remember doing such a search where the team was looking for a lost little boy. They had Dax and I checking all the ponds to make sure he didn't drown. We got carted to muliple fields on the backs of ATVs and I had lost sense of feeling in my butt. We worked three large ponds and nothing was found. The boy was found the next day walking up a road about a mile away. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I like the puzzle.
Most people in HRs that I talk to are migrating to affiliating with local L.E. agencies, county sherrif's offices, etc. Sometimes the cost is they have to endure an academy to become a reserve officer and this usually means you pay thousands of dollars for your own equipment, uniforms, and duty you find idiotic. They still do it because they want to work the puzzle with their dogs.
Emergency Mangement/FEMA/Homeland security is throwing dollars to municipalities. The end result is local EMS is trying to take control over county operations. To me it's just another turf war that I try to stay out of. I'm in a good place now, but most are not so lucky.
I can't really tell you a good reason to get back into SAR dog handling. If you need to do it, you'll find a valid reason. If not, you won't.
I avoid the press when ever I can. I hate the politics yet get tossed into the middle of it more times that I'd like to count. All I can tell you is that when I'm working my dog on a real search or a blind problem that the rest of the world drops away and I'm at peace. I'm doing what I'm meant to do with the one creature I want to be with more than anyone else. (apologies to the wife, but she knows) If we come back into base and the family is there, wants to thanks us, I'm almost embarrassed as I know I'd be there anyway to help solve the puzzle.
The people I take on as students are the ones that I recognize the obsession in. I know they'll stick with it and they'll strive to do everything right, meet all the rules, only work when their dog and they are an asset and not a liability, and I know they'll help others do the same.
I'll answer any questions on how to train a dog do what mine do. Rarely is that enough, but I'm always happy to share.
By the way, I consider water work the most fun because you get to be right up there with the dog when they work the scent. I have a photo of Dax working a flood in June, but every time I try to put it in the post, it blanks out the post and I have to start all over again. Let me know what I'm doing wrong and I'll put it in a subsequent post.
Regards,
jim
Any and all Jim... I have considered going back to Sar many times and traing one of these Knotheads But then I Look at the time I have the time that goes into training and the Need in this area and cant justify it. the local unit has about 5 searches a year and of those maybe 1 is a body search and 2 are water searches. so ya figure over the life of a dog it might if he is lucky have 35 searches. Big difference from what I Did in WY. A slow year would be 100+ searches With half being Multi searches at the same time dog wernet Only Justified they were Praised by all. We had 3 dogs in our unit and 3 Pups up and coming. Sure makes avalnche rescue nice.
SAR varies a lot from area to area. Avalanche dogs are a specialty all their own. The need for them is obvious to the people that live in that area. For the other areas of SAR, the call-outs and use vary widely from California and Virginia where SAR is highly organized to most everywhere else where SAR is highly political and often doesn't follow logic.
In my area, HR dogs will end up getting the most calls for several reasons. Usually when someone comes up lost, everyone bands together and tries to help. Lots of man-to-man searches take place. L.E. will try their tracking dogs if they have them or can get them from the closest prison. By the time area search dogs are considered, welll.....it's been weeks and the clues grow cold. A lot of times HR dogs might be called just to show the family that every avenue is being exhausted.
From talking to lots of groups around the country, it's fairly common that SAR dog groups alienate L.E. and each other because of hidden agendas or a wierd sense of turf issues. My wife woke me up about five years ago when I was watching the local news and another group pulled a bonehead move. I was cracking up when she pointed out to me, "ya know, when they look bad, you all look bad."
She was right. And, ya know, the real motivation should be simply helping people regardless of who gets the credit.
Sadly, many teams and handlers want to help so badly that they often lose sight when they aren't ready to do the job. They lose sight that they might do more harm than good. A dog team that's not ready declares an area clear when someone or something really was there. Or, a dog team suggests something or someone is there and nothing is.
L.E. quickly comes to the conclusion that civilian groups are more a liability than help in several ways. Some SAR groups just want to get on the camera. Some want to take charge and tell L.E. how to do their job. If a civilian gets hurt while searching, the civic entity has to worry if they are going to get sued. The local group I belong to has carried their own liability insurance for many years.
And, for some reason, SAR groups seem to be magnets for people that need something in their life that has nothing to do with working a dog. A woman that did support for myself and another dog handler some years back has apparently got herself banned from several municipalities. She left our group years back, much to our relief. She had a lab that she only trained when she came to group training. She has since showed up on scenes and tried to take control without the training or the credentials. Just off the top of my head, I'd say for 40 people that come to a SAR dog group to join, maybe 1 will stick it out to be deployable. Many just want to be able to tell their friends that they are involved without ever having to do the real grunt work. The woman that I learned much of what I do with dogs preached ethics at me for years, yet she couldn't follow her own rules, ended up getting convicted for lying about planting evidence. She got to spend a year in the same prison as Martha Stewart. We can only figure she did it because she loved the press and she loved pulling the wool over L.E.'s eyes. It gave many good dog handlers a stain on unblemished work.
And, then there are the group politics that seem to follow dog people whatever they do. Some groups will dump you unless you only train their way. We've learned through painful experience that we don't care how someone gets themselves and their dogs to the point where they can pass our tests, that the performance is truly what matters. We have our ways of training, but at the end of training you are taking your dog home with you and you have to train it the rest of the week. SAR dog handling is only for those that love it for doing it, the obsessed. True, your dog might end up saving a life or giving a family closure and that's definitely a good thing, but it can't be the driving force. Even with area search for live subjects where search management actually has a good idea of where the subject is....well, only one dog team is gong to make the find. The rest will be working clear areas. It's the same with HRs. If there are multiple teams, unless you have widely scattered remains, most areas are going to be negative. If you don't enjoy going out just to go out and work with the dog to your utmost capabilities, then you'll be miserable when it's 18'F outside, winds in the 30's, possible ice storm, and 0300 when you are deployed.
I can remember doing such a search where the team was looking for a lost little boy. They had Dax and I checking all the ponds to make sure he didn't drown. We got carted to muliple fields on the backs of ATVs and I had lost sense of feeling in my butt. We worked three large ponds and nothing was found. The boy was found the next day walking up a road about a mile away. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I like the puzzle.
Most people in HRs that I talk to are migrating to affiliating with local L.E. agencies, county sherrif's offices, etc. Sometimes the cost is they have to endure an academy to become a reserve officer and this usually means you pay thousands of dollars for your own equipment, uniforms, and duty you find idiotic. They still do it because they want to work the puzzle with their dogs.
Emergency Mangement/FEMA/Homeland security is throwing dollars to municipalities. The end result is local EMS is trying to take control over county operations. To me it's just another turf war that I try to stay out of. I'm in a good place now, but most are not so lucky.
I can't really tell you a good reason to get back into SAR dog handling. If you need to do it, you'll find a valid reason. If not, you won't.
I avoid the press when ever I can. I hate the politics yet get tossed into the middle of it more times that I'd like to count. All I can tell you is that when I'm working my dog on a real search or a blind problem that the rest of the world drops away and I'm at peace. I'm doing what I'm meant to do with the one creature I want to be with more than anyone else. (apologies to the wife, but she knows) If we come back into base and the family is there, wants to thanks us, I'm almost embarrassed as I know I'd be there anyway to help solve the puzzle.
The people I take on as students are the ones that I recognize the obsession in. I know they'll stick with it and they'll strive to do everything right, meet all the rules, only work when their dog and they are an asset and not a liability, and I know they'll help others do the same.
I'll answer any questions on how to train a dog do what mine do. Rarely is that enough, but I'm always happy to share.
By the way, I consider water work the most fun because you get to be right up there with the dog when they work the scent. I have a photo of Dax working a flood in June, but every time I try to put it in the post, it blanks out the post and I have to start all over again. Let me know what I'm doing wrong and I'll put it in a subsequent post.
Regards,
jim