Post by oksaradt on Dec 21, 2007 12:24:35 GMT -5
This is an excerpt from a discussion I'm having on a private list I'm on with some other SAR K9 handlers. I felt it was applicable here for several reasons.
1) Dealing with high-drive ADTs routinely, this isn't a big deal for me. In fact, I tend to look forward to the adventures that a confident, high-drive, intense ADT is going to present in their training and maturing. I have had to "talk down" more than my share of owners who considered such adventures as a sign that they had purchased the devil's own spawn.
2) A lot of problems I see owners complain about can be overcome by simply adhering to a simple rule, "The dog must earn it's food from you and know that you control access to food, be it daily rations, milkbones, chewies, rewards at training, etc." Getting owners to stop free-feeding their dogs can often be an impossible task and if that's the case I wash my hands of them....it's their call. Basically, if the dog has free access to food, what does it need you for. I'm all for loving bonds and attachments, but all creatures still base their lives on the basic needs above all else. This is why wolves and ultimately dogs chose to join with humans, we have similar pack behaviors and the food is more bountiful working together.
So with the theory tossed in, here's the saga:
Ok, the first bad Murphy story.
Over the last ten days, Murphy has been getting fed at night outside the dog kennels to ease him into pack feeding. Each time he has been fed first with nothing required of him.
The past two days I have begun charging for the price of a food bowl and Murphy has reacted with expected indignity. he was getting fed first after all for nothing.
He only has to sit. I only ask once and I wait him out.
Sooooo, last night I got home late as I helped a buddy cut down a tree and loaded the wood on my trailer. I got some milkbones to give the dogs as an appetizer while I went inside and fed da wife.
I ask each dog to do something through the fence for their milkbone. Murphy is last. Murphy looks at me, looks at Shake eating his bone, looks at me, flips me off and races to Shake to steal his bone. I went ballistic. After unchaining the fence to prevent Shake from opening it, I still managed to get to Murphy before he'd eat all the bone and took it away from him. I gave it back to Shake. Murphy immediately goes to Shake and steals it from him. I scruffed Murphy and he immediately does the tantrum thing which I simply waited out. When he stopped I released him (the scruff was him on the ground, me simply holding his skin behind his neck to control him) and he was as if nothing had happened. I put Shake in the next kennel, asked Dax to come in with Murphy, and went back to get more ammo.
I broke two milkbones into 8 pieces each, put them into a bowl, and went back out into the kennels. Dax climbed up on the floating platform looking amused. I asked Murphy to sit, he jumps on my legs which I bump him off and ignore him. I ask Dax to sit, she does, I give her a treat and "good girl".
Murphy watches this. I ask Murphy to sit. He jumps on me again. I look at Dax, she sits, I give her the treat and a "good girl". Murphy watches this. Murphy LOVES Milkbones like a kid loves chocolate bars.
I ask Murphy to sit. He looks at Dax who plops her ass down and then he sits. I give him a milkbone and whoo hooo. I ask Dax to bark. She does and I reward her.
I ask Murphy to bark. He jumps on my legs. I bump him off and turn to Dax. She gives me another bark. I reward her. Murphy watches. I ask Murphy to bark. he barks, I reward him and woo hooo.
Murphy did 2 sits, 2 barks, and 2 downs for his six pieces. Dax enjoyed the other 10.
Feeding last night. I had Murphy and Dax still together. I fed, the other three dogs first. Murphy is pacing the fence barking. When the other three dogs are all done, pet, milkbone for desert. I slowly get up and move into the other kennel. Murphy is again getting bumped off my legs and ignored.
I ask Dax to sit. She does. I put her food bowl down. Tell her to wait. Murphy starts to go for it and Dax lets out a growl. Murphy pauses in mid-step. I ask Murphy to sit. He looks at me. He looks at Dax with curled lip. He looks back at me and sits. I tell him good boy, put the food down and say "OK" where upon both dogs start eating.
This morning. I bring out bones for all and some dry for Murphy after putting him out in the kennel at 0500. I put Shake in the other kennel so again it's just Dax and Murphy. I give the other three their milkbones then move in with Dax and Murphy. I ask Dax to bark. she does, I give her the milkbone. She moves over about 10 feet away. I ask Murphy to bark. He looks at me. He looks at Dax. Dax literally spits her mlkbone down in front of her, stands and wags her tail, looking at Murphy. I could hear Clint Eastwood in the background, "DO YOU FEEL LUCKY, PUP!.......So, DO YOU!
"
Murphy turns to me and barks. I gave him his bowl which he sucked down and then I asked him to sit for his milkbone. He looks at Dax, now done with her milkbone and he wags her tail. He sits......
Sometimes you just have to love teamwork dog training.
Jim
Epilogue: I posted this to the other list a few days ago. I have continued now feeding Dax and Murphy last with Dax getting her bowl placed in front of her first and her told to "Wait". Murphy has the option to try to steal her food and she sits their in anticipation. Murphy has quickly become much more compliant as he now knows I can wait as long as it takes. His milkbone is now broken up into pieces and he has to earn every piece. This morning he had to Sit, Down, Bark, Climb, and Tunnel for pieces of milkbone after eating his morning kibble. There was no argument on his part and life was good.
Oh....I've been getting some quiet emails from some conformation breeders after some posts on the ATCA Q&A list. Some stating some of their dogs are a bit oversized. ....*sigh* *grin*....I'm biting my tongue. For me, a 26.5" male is small. Dax is 27 inches at the withers, Tempe was 29 inches at the withers. A friend asked me to measure Murphy two days ago. He's 27 lbs, 17 inches at the withers, at 13.5 weeks....... He's going to be decent sized boy.
Oh on the teamwork dog training....: I am a big believer in seed dog training. My first dog, Jacob, a GSD, was the hardest dog for me to train in obedience and expected behavior. This was both because I was new at it and I was doing the training alone. I've since never had to train a dog on my own. All my other dogs present examples for the dog in training to observe and training goes so much faster. And, when you have an ADT like Dax, other ADTs just don't have a chance. In many SAR circles Dax had the reputation of being the "Fun Monitor" and was used at one seminar to challenge bloodhounds on a trail. She was tied onto the path the trail layer put down and dogs had to go around her and re-acquire the trail once their cleared her. I have a feeling that Murphy will be a similar ADT.
1) Dealing with high-drive ADTs routinely, this isn't a big deal for me. In fact, I tend to look forward to the adventures that a confident, high-drive, intense ADT is going to present in their training and maturing. I have had to "talk down" more than my share of owners who considered such adventures as a sign that they had purchased the devil's own spawn.
2) A lot of problems I see owners complain about can be overcome by simply adhering to a simple rule, "The dog must earn it's food from you and know that you control access to food, be it daily rations, milkbones, chewies, rewards at training, etc." Getting owners to stop free-feeding their dogs can often be an impossible task and if that's the case I wash my hands of them....it's their call. Basically, if the dog has free access to food, what does it need you for. I'm all for loving bonds and attachments, but all creatures still base their lives on the basic needs above all else. This is why wolves and ultimately dogs chose to join with humans, we have similar pack behaviors and the food is more bountiful working together.
So with the theory tossed in, here's the saga:
Ok, the first bad Murphy story.
Over the last ten days, Murphy has been getting fed at night outside the dog kennels to ease him into pack feeding. Each time he has been fed first with nothing required of him.
The past two days I have begun charging for the price of a food bowl and Murphy has reacted with expected indignity. he was getting fed first after all for nothing.
He only has to sit. I only ask once and I wait him out.
Sooooo, last night I got home late as I helped a buddy cut down a tree and loaded the wood on my trailer. I got some milkbones to give the dogs as an appetizer while I went inside and fed da wife.
I ask each dog to do something through the fence for their milkbone. Murphy is last. Murphy looks at me, looks at Shake eating his bone, looks at me, flips me off and races to Shake to steal his bone. I went ballistic. After unchaining the fence to prevent Shake from opening it, I still managed to get to Murphy before he'd eat all the bone and took it away from him. I gave it back to Shake. Murphy immediately goes to Shake and steals it from him. I scruffed Murphy and he immediately does the tantrum thing which I simply waited out. When he stopped I released him (the scruff was him on the ground, me simply holding his skin behind his neck to control him) and he was as if nothing had happened. I put Shake in the next kennel, asked Dax to come in with Murphy, and went back to get more ammo.
I broke two milkbones into 8 pieces each, put them into a bowl, and went back out into the kennels. Dax climbed up on the floating platform looking amused. I asked Murphy to sit, he jumps on my legs which I bump him off and ignore him. I ask Dax to sit, she does, I give her a treat and "good girl".
Murphy watches this. I ask Murphy to sit. He jumps on me again. I look at Dax, she sits, I give her the treat and a "good girl". Murphy watches this. Murphy LOVES Milkbones like a kid loves chocolate bars.
I ask Murphy to sit. He looks at Dax who plops her ass down and then he sits. I give him a milkbone and whoo hooo. I ask Dax to bark. She does and I reward her.
I ask Murphy to bark. He jumps on my legs. I bump him off and turn to Dax. She gives me another bark. I reward her. Murphy watches. I ask Murphy to bark. he barks, I reward him and woo hooo.
Murphy did 2 sits, 2 barks, and 2 downs for his six pieces. Dax enjoyed the other 10.
Feeding last night. I had Murphy and Dax still together. I fed, the other three dogs first. Murphy is pacing the fence barking. When the other three dogs are all done, pet, milkbone for desert. I slowly get up and move into the other kennel. Murphy is again getting bumped off my legs and ignored.
I ask Dax to sit. She does. I put her food bowl down. Tell her to wait. Murphy starts to go for it and Dax lets out a growl. Murphy pauses in mid-step. I ask Murphy to sit. He looks at me. He looks at Dax with curled lip. He looks back at me and sits. I tell him good boy, put the food down and say "OK" where upon both dogs start eating.
This morning. I bring out bones for all and some dry for Murphy after putting him out in the kennel at 0500. I put Shake in the other kennel so again it's just Dax and Murphy. I give the other three their milkbones then move in with Dax and Murphy. I ask Dax to bark. she does, I give her the milkbone. She moves over about 10 feet away. I ask Murphy to bark. He looks at me. He looks at Dax. Dax literally spits her mlkbone down in front of her, stands and wags her tail, looking at Murphy. I could hear Clint Eastwood in the background, "DO YOU FEEL LUCKY, PUP!.......So, DO YOU!
" Murphy turns to me and barks. I gave him his bowl which he sucked down and then I asked him to sit for his milkbone. He looks at Dax, now done with her milkbone and he wags her tail. He sits......
Sometimes you just have to love teamwork dog training.
Jim
Epilogue: I posted this to the other list a few days ago. I have continued now feeding Dax and Murphy last with Dax getting her bowl placed in front of her first and her told to "Wait". Murphy has the option to try to steal her food and she sits their in anticipation. Murphy has quickly become much more compliant as he now knows I can wait as long as it takes. His milkbone is now broken up into pieces and he has to earn every piece. This morning he had to Sit, Down, Bark, Climb, and Tunnel for pieces of milkbone after eating his morning kibble. There was no argument on his part and life was good.
Oh....I've been getting some quiet emails from some conformation breeders after some posts on the ATCA Q&A list. Some stating some of their dogs are a bit oversized. ....*sigh* *grin*....I'm biting my tongue. For me, a 26.5" male is small. Dax is 27 inches at the withers, Tempe was 29 inches at the withers. A friend asked me to measure Murphy two days ago. He's 27 lbs, 17 inches at the withers, at 13.5 weeks....... He's going to be decent sized boy.
Oh on the teamwork dog training....: I am a big believer in seed dog training. My first dog, Jacob, a GSD, was the hardest dog for me to train in obedience and expected behavior. This was both because I was new at it and I was doing the training alone. I've since never had to train a dog on my own. All my other dogs present examples for the dog in training to observe and training goes so much faster. And, when you have an ADT like Dax, other ADTs just don't have a chance. In many SAR circles Dax had the reputation of being the "Fun Monitor" and was used at one seminar to challenge bloodhounds on a trail. She was tied onto the path the trail layer put down and dogs had to go around her and re-acquire the trail once their cleared her. I have a feeling that Murphy will be a similar ADT.
