Post by oksaradt on Jun 5, 2008 12:06:00 GMT -5
As Dax, my nearly 11 y/o working dog has a growth on her throat and I've been ferrying her up to the university for diagnostics, I'm going to cheat this week and post a reply I made from another list I belong to. This is a private list made up of handlers I've played with for a very long time and whose observations I always pay much attention to. These questions are from a new dog handler that is being mentored by one of my friends. Names have been XXX'd out to maintain their privacy.
<<Jim, Another set of questions from the inexperienced. XXDogXX is only up to 8" buried, and I have not set up that kind of grid, only a line search. He does well, once I get him to do a fine search, which is something that we are working on. My questions are: 1) Why do you add the water?>>
++To accelerate diffusion of the scent into the soil so that it can be worked in only a week and I feel confident the dog is working HR scent and not fresh dirt.++
<<2) Why do you use nonhuman sources, is it to make sure that he does not hit on them? >>
++Yup, hunters bury deer on a regular basis. The point is to teach the dog that not all buried dead is of interest. You should have animal remains in your surface and elevated problems as well. I have multiple deer legs around my land that a hunting buddy gives me. Any time I find other remains, I save a small part. XXXXXXXX used to crack me up with stories of stopping on the side of the road with their hatchet to get samples for their dog training. ++
<<3) How can you determine if your dog is not hitting on the sources because of a memory, or do dogs not remember things for very long?.>>
++As in working this same area multiple times? That's a fair assesment on line set-ups, surface, and elevated problems where the dog has landmarks they can use. I'm sure you've observed your dog re-checking later places you've hidden stuff before just in case it can make the easy find. The point with the cemetery-layout style problem is there are no landmarks. As this problem ages, it will "mature"....as in the scent will continue to diffuse, possibly overlap. Also, I worked Murphy the first successfull pass on best conditions possible (a nice rainstorm would have been better two days prior....but...). Now that Murphy has passed this milestone he gets to suffer increasingly more difficulty with it such that when XXXX and XXXX set me up problems to work in crappy conditions it won't phase him. This is another series of baby steps. He gets the foundation and then it gets harder and harder till he's ready for the next level of difficulty. ++
<<4) How often should I bring XXDogXX to the grid to do a search, once a week, every other week, or two times a week, and should I bring him in from a different way and incorporate some other nonburied sources in the search pattern to vary it up? >>
++I would have XXMentorXX guide you in this as it's more a handler judgement call on what you can throw at the dog when. You have to push their limits, but not so much that the dog is forced into cheating or lying to you to satisfy you. If Murphy had worked this and I'd seen that he had no clue then I had some other problems sitting elsewhere to move him onto and we'd come back to the 12-inch buried another day. Each new plateau is (or the handler should be) in high observation mode to see what the dog can do on its own without you as real searches basically force you to totally trust the dog. There is no set time limit or number of repetitions. You work problems like these as long as they prove useful to the dog's increasing skill set. If you work them too often you will soon observe the dog running right to the correct spots without having to use its nose. If that happens, then it is time to dig that set up and create a new one.
Varying directions into the area works. Working the problems at night. Working them in full sun (eventually) means the dog is really going to have to strain to find and you have to worry about working too long such that the dog overheats (we're in the upper 90s already here). If you have a rainstorm, that's another complication you can take advantage of. I've had to work cemeteries in the rain because we drove 3 hours to get there and it took us months to set it up. Dax was able to do it.
The source locations are the same, but you vary everything else a little bit at a time in increasing difficulty with the attitude that the dog should demonstrate it is having to work to make the finds.
The scariest problem I can give a handler is a flat field with 1 foot tall grass, no landmarks, no obvious topographical changes, no clues. The dog has to work the scent and the handler has to be on their toes to remember what's been worked and what hasn't.
Good questions.++
Jim
<<Jim, Another set of questions from the inexperienced. XXDogXX is only up to 8" buried, and I have not set up that kind of grid, only a line search. He does well, once I get him to do a fine search, which is something that we are working on. My questions are: 1) Why do you add the water?>>
++To accelerate diffusion of the scent into the soil so that it can be worked in only a week and I feel confident the dog is working HR scent and not fresh dirt.++
<<2) Why do you use nonhuman sources, is it to make sure that he does not hit on them? >>
++Yup, hunters bury deer on a regular basis. The point is to teach the dog that not all buried dead is of interest. You should have animal remains in your surface and elevated problems as well. I have multiple deer legs around my land that a hunting buddy gives me. Any time I find other remains, I save a small part. XXXXXXXX used to crack me up with stories of stopping on the side of the road with their hatchet to get samples for their dog training. ++
<<3) How can you determine if your dog is not hitting on the sources because of a memory, or do dogs not remember things for very long?.>>
++As in working this same area multiple times? That's a fair assesment on line set-ups, surface, and elevated problems where the dog has landmarks they can use. I'm sure you've observed your dog re-checking later places you've hidden stuff before just in case it can make the easy find. The point with the cemetery-layout style problem is there are no landmarks. As this problem ages, it will "mature"....as in the scent will continue to diffuse, possibly overlap. Also, I worked Murphy the first successfull pass on best conditions possible (a nice rainstorm would have been better two days prior....but...). Now that Murphy has passed this milestone he gets to suffer increasingly more difficulty with it such that when XXXX and XXXX set me up problems to work in crappy conditions it won't phase him. This is another series of baby steps. He gets the foundation and then it gets harder and harder till he's ready for the next level of difficulty. ++
<<4) How often should I bring XXDogXX to the grid to do a search, once a week, every other week, or two times a week, and should I bring him in from a different way and incorporate some other nonburied sources in the search pattern to vary it up? >>
++I would have XXMentorXX guide you in this as it's more a handler judgement call on what you can throw at the dog when. You have to push their limits, but not so much that the dog is forced into cheating or lying to you to satisfy you. If Murphy had worked this and I'd seen that he had no clue then I had some other problems sitting elsewhere to move him onto and we'd come back to the 12-inch buried another day. Each new plateau is (or the handler should be) in high observation mode to see what the dog can do on its own without you as real searches basically force you to totally trust the dog. There is no set time limit or number of repetitions. You work problems like these as long as they prove useful to the dog's increasing skill set. If you work them too often you will soon observe the dog running right to the correct spots without having to use its nose. If that happens, then it is time to dig that set up and create a new one.
Varying directions into the area works. Working the problems at night. Working them in full sun (eventually) means the dog is really going to have to strain to find and you have to worry about working too long such that the dog overheats (we're in the upper 90s already here). If you have a rainstorm, that's another complication you can take advantage of. I've had to work cemeteries in the rain because we drove 3 hours to get there and it took us months to set it up. Dax was able to do it.
The source locations are the same, but you vary everything else a little bit at a time in increasing difficulty with the attitude that the dog should demonstrate it is having to work to make the finds.
The scariest problem I can give a handler is a flat field with 1 foot tall grass, no landmarks, no obvious topographical changes, no clues. The dog has to work the scent and the handler has to be on their toes to remember what's been worked and what hasn't.
Good questions.++
Jim