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Post by ed on Jan 20, 2009 20:22:49 GMT -5
Ed - What training have you done with your Dale? Did you just do simple conditioning and retrieving play or did you get more formal with whistle signals, hand commands, forced retrieve, etc...? Have you done any hunt tests? What is your Dales flush like and how close does it work for upland? What about in the water - how is s/he? How does your Dale work solo in terms of finding birds? Horribilis bird dog training was sort of a side line. His major training was in VPG.This is a pretty demanding regimen and occupied most of his training time. You can peruse the rules www.dvgamerica.com/2004VDHEnglishVersion-1c.pdf He did however through this obtain more than enough obedience (heel down sit stay etc) that easily carried over to bird work. He was pretty much a natural retriever but this was enhanced for certainty with force fetch. As far as hunt tests the major venue for Airedales has been the Hunting Working Comitte huntingworkingairedales.org/which until about a year ago had been part of the AKC parent club. No single dog sport event brought as many Airedales to one place at one time. I attended HW each March and ran my dog in the tests. He satisfied me and did some good stuff. He was the highest scoring dog completing Junior Versatile Hunter (fur upland retrieving) and was among several Airedales that achieved Master retriever .Doing bird work was particularly a fun challenge since in VPG tracking the dog must work with a deep nose yet in upland raised head air scenting is the dog's natural instinct.Despite this apparent conflict he is one of three Airedales to get an FH (advanced tracking degree in the USA. (See post under FH Brag.)I he believe is the first and only Airedale to complete VPG3 and obtain hunting titles. To answer your other questions he is at home in the water and has pulled heartily resisting duck (dusted with Hevi shot) out of a ice caked flooded field As far as working solo that is his usual style as the pointy dog guys I hunt with take of at a gallop and I head off on my own.He is a good bird finder especially in heavy cover. Last Sunday it was bitter cold and from 9 AM when we started till 11 I heard no shooting from anyone. The wind was very strong and then Duh I got out of a cornfield and started hunting a woody area. Bingo. We put up three Roosters in 30 minutes. He is bloody deadly on downed birds and has pulled one out of a wood pile and under a log that would have challenged a Dachshund. Then there is the flushing coyote but thats another .....well not a bird dog thing. Good luck with your quest. My advice is get a drivy dog .....you can always tone a high dog down but bring a low one up isn't a lot of fun.
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Post by hicntry on Jan 22, 2009 16:41:00 GMT -5
Here is a picture of an airedale backing.....and pointing. The second phopto is the same as the first and is Dan's Lenape. Here is Jim's Buck
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Post by horribilis on Jan 23, 2009 0:17:51 GMT -5
Great pointing Dale photo!
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Post by dwolf on Jan 23, 2009 2:58:45 GMT -5
Grizzly, Thanks for the compliment. Both of those dogs, Lenape the airedale & Maeve the half airedale(same line) pointed & naturally held points the first time out on game birds at a reserve. And these dogs I run really pretty wide as lurchers & they kill things constantly on their own, lol. I really never expected either of my airedales to point or my airedale lurcher either. But, both airedales & lurcher are natural bird dogs. Birdy as hell. The 1st few experiences Apache pointed & flushed them, but then w/out any direction from me except whistling to keep em close, the dales just naturally starting pointing & crouching when the scent got smoking hot or visible, & I personally was thrilled because these dogs are fast tall relatively wide ranging dogs which I primarily hunt vermin w/most of the year, and w/very little effort they started hunting tighter on birds & they lock up on a bird, point, & sometimes sort of crouch. The one photo of the lurcher didn't come out because of the cover, but she pointed w/both the front & back leg off the ground same side, lol. Which I also dig because I like to think it harkens back to older blood where the "sitters - later dubbed 'setters' crouched or sat when on birds so the fowler could throw the net. But, never the less, the absolute 1st time Lenape was on any game bird except puppy training quail & pheasant wings he locked up & supported Apaches' point on a family of grouse while out hiking. It was beautiful & he had already killed a good bit of game & I really bought him for a kill type fur dog. I love the trait personally because I can prepare for the shot & usually don't have to run over hell's half acre scattering lead at 70 yd birds. Usually, lol. But, I have to say in my experience w/my 3 dogs they pointed & honored points naturally. They only thing I do when on birds is try to keep them closer to me. But as the last photo shows - if you command them to flush- you can get a little rise out of some birds & some bird dogs. cheers,
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Post by ed on Jan 23, 2009 13:57:44 GMT -5
Nice pics guys and regarding retrieving.
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Post by hicntry on Jan 23, 2009 15:26:06 GMT -5
Great photo's yourself Ed. Gotta love a good dog. Horribilis, you mentioned show and agility lines several times. If that were the only source for you, I would definiotely go with the Griff, hands down. There are "some" good dogs in such lines, don't get me wrong. The problem is when you are looking at a litter of 10, picking the one that may have some promise has the odds stacked against you. First, understand that retieving is "not" natural to a dog but finding a bird and flushing is..... or should be anyway. Any dog can be taught to retrieve toys or birds. They can be taught to do a lot of things but, as was said, you can't put the natural stuff in a dog if it isn't there. Ed's dog does PP, birds and is a natural on fur. Dan and Jim's dogs have all the natural instincts because they were bred for it. When it comes to Airedales, I think having the natural instinct and being bred to work is far mor important that if the parents were bird dogs. Here are some pictures of Buck water retrieving a dummy. Jim isn't a waterfowler but Buck can get the job done. The other pictures are Jim and Buck on a dove shoot.
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Post by grantk24 on Jan 31, 2009 22:16:29 GMT -5
Ed,
Do airedales range out like pointers or do they stay in closer like flushers ?
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Post by morgan on Feb 4, 2009 21:32:59 GMT -5
Don, retrieving is absolutely natural to dogs. Dogs in the wild (and wolves) don't eat where they kill, they return the killed prey to the pack. It's all about the prey sequence. Thankfully, Airedales have one of the most complete prey sequences of any breed-as opposed to pointers who by breeding interrupt on pounce.
Dave in NYC
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Post by hicntry on Feb 5, 2009 9:24:57 GMT -5
Don, retrieving is absolutely natural to dogs. Dogs in the wild (and wolves) don't eat where they kill, they return the killed prey to the pack. It's all about the prey sequence. Thankfully, Airedales have one of the most complete prey sequences of any breed-as opposed to pointers who by breeding interrupt on pounce. Dave in NYC I think this would do better in the BS section Dave. ;D
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Post by maugh on Feb 6, 2009 16:49:46 GMT -5
Dave : "Honey, while your out why not fetch some money at the ATM and we'll go out to dinner? {Kirsten drives off, eventually goes to the ATM and draws out the contents of the account, buys one ticket to the Bahamas. Then Dave gets a phone call} "Honey I'm calling from the Bahamas, wish you were here. Once I drew out the money it just seemed so natural that I keep on going. I ended up here in the Bahamas, not sure where. Won't be home for dinner."
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