Training or Genetics

[ed]

Interesting German vid of an Airedale (Maik) that was in 4 out of 5 National VPG working Championships during his lifetime. This is the paternal Grandfather of Stew's litter that will be in Ohio. Malik recieved 97 out of 100 in trial on vid which is at the bottom of the page. At top of page are 24 children sired by the dog. They have a great record keeping system.

www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/33150/Maik-vom-Morgenstern

[ed]

Forgot to add this same dog sired the 2009 VPG # ! Airedale in Germany
www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/45645/Don-vom-Treffenwald

Training or genetics.......whats your call

[Summit Forge]

Professor Ed are you trying to trick the class with your either, or question?

BTW, I'm crazy about Maik. What a boy. He looks just like Bill vom Morganstern and another dog with which I was quite familiar.

Ron

[phil]

Easy for me Maik was owned by a passionate performance person, With a competitve championship run of over 4 years Peter Ronde was sure he would make his fine dog all it could be. His Pedigree reminded me of the the performance family's that field trial dogs in this country come from, whether they be Point,retriev or flushing dogs bred by folks that care enough to make their blood the best it can be. I have noticed quite a sizable number of the German ped's that this is case more often than not, VPG3's out of VPG3's out of VPG3's. The German have a real passion for making their dogs balanced and energized. Their pedigree system on line is just awesome, no empty talk, just the facts titles health,temperment tests.

Cheers

Hal

[Kimf]

Well - I've seen Mike live at klsp and I almost took a brother of Don (but the timing was not right). Mike is a good and strong individual, but - every now-and-then Peter had problems (in big competitions) to get the dumbbell back from Maik - if this is a mental or teaching problem I don't know. I also remember, that Maik had sometimes problems to let go of the sleeve.

With Don I might be disqualified, because of my relationship to the v.Treffenwald kennel. Don is a very good dog, but what makes Don so good is his leader Manfred, who is a very talented dog trainer and helper.
I've seen Don working all 3 times I've visited Petra (v.Treffenwald).
1st time Don was around 1 1/2 years old and second time was 1 year later - both times I was very impressed of how excellent working the dog was capable of doing.
Last December I had my dog (Eiku v.Treffenwald) with me and we trained both obedience and schutz together with Manfred - and I feel very lucky, that I got this opportunity.

[Summit Forge]

Kim,
Thanks for your input. Based on my experience...and I'm guessing...the "stickiness" you describe related to the dumbbell give and the out on the sleeve may be a training issue.

My last ADT, Forge, had a similar issue that I created because he was a tough nut to break to retrieve to hand. If a dog wants to end the retrieve drill when he is done with it and not when the handler is satisfied, one has a temporary standoff. I used to heel Forge on our 30 minute walk with his bumper. If he dropped it, he was corrected. I obviously got him out of "balance" because of this but the fix was really pretty easy. No worries.

Ron

[Kimf]

Jep - it probably is a authority problem, but it can as well be a problem of how the dog is capable of handling the leaders (from the dog's point-of-view) strange behavior comparing to trainings (because the leader is so nervous)

[phil]

Kimf/Ed
what history is there about the litter mates of these dogs? Are there other titled dogs out of this breeding? and have the breedings ever repeated?

Hal

[Kimf]

I don't want to be rude, but if you go to each dog's working-dog link and look at their siblings, you will see all their full- and half-brothers/sisters.

[phil]

KimF
Not rude at all thanks did not see that feature at the working-dog site

Chers

hal

[phil]

Kimf
Very nice Thank-you for the site tip

Hal

[alex69]

Hi all

i am the moderator for the Airedales at Working Dog.

I have also a Maik daughter and a Maik granddaughter, both from the Erikson kennel.

I am training dogs since 20 years and have experiences also with German Shepard's and Malinois.

Regarding to the opening question Training or Genetics i made the experience that both are relevant. With no genetic the best handler has no chances and on the opposite side a dog with excellent genetic but an untalented handler shows most time bad performance.

Best regards Alex

[Kimf]

...and I would like to add that especially in IPO/VPG, it's not only the dog and the leader, that effects the result - it's the whole team (helper and possible trainer(s)) around the dog that has to be good