Post by oksaradt on Oct 30, 2007 17:26:59 GMT -5
I tend to be one of those "put your money where your mouth is" sort of people, so I felt it only fair to post my selection of a new puppy.
My population consists of 9 litters looked at since my 5 y/o Tempe died on May 15. I can't point a finger against show ADTs as one breeder who does both show and hunting was very helpful. We did find a common passion for history and preferring to be out in the field, so he'll be one of those I contact in a couple of years when I look for the next puppy. I have spaced these puppies out by 5 year intervals in the past because .....well, while the benefits of working with a puppy during the 5-16 week interval are well worth the price, this time period is a real pain. While the new dog will eventually be outside with my pack on their 2 acres, I will be his world till at least past 4 months of age. This is to imprint scents, increase IQ, and build a very solid bond between myself and the dog. This is not the type of working dog you'd train and sell off. This is to be a canine working partner for the career of the dog. As Tempe died early, I intend to start another puppy in three years.
This past weekend I looked at two litters. One litter of 7 (2M, 5F) and one litter of 10 (4M, 6F thought one male was taken as pick of the litter and I didn't test it. ....no point). These litters were in two states other than mine, so gas cost me around $100 per litter to test plus pretty much a whole day of my time..
Out of 16 puppies (plus the 7 previous litters) I found one puppy that fulfilled what I had to have to the job. This does not mean to say that I have extremely high standards, but I think as many have discussed that much of the show breeding is pulling the breed away from common scenting abilities. I tried to focus on dogs being bred more for hunting when I could, but hunting can imply prey drive over hunt drive, i.e. more visually oriented than scent driven.
Murphy's results were:
1 Noise Sensitivity - Reaction to Pie Pans throw together and allowed to drop to the ground. Murphy jumped, ran back a few steps, then investigated the source of the noise.
(This is not uncommon to be the highest test for failure as the puppy is allowed to run for the hills. I give the puppy an opportunity to be talked back as long as it will cross the pie pans to get to me)
2 - Social - Puppy is 4-8 feet away and can be coaxed to come to me (after Test 1).
Murphy came readily, tail up. Murphy appears to be a thinker as many of the tests he would sit there then leap up and respond.
Many of the Missouri puppies would come within a foot of me, get my scent and then turn away as they had not experienced many humans other than the breeders.
Note: There is no way to really prepare puppies for this testing. I've had litters that had very minimal contact that loved people and litters that were handled every day that just didn't like the way I smelled.
3 - Following - I leave the puppy and call to it (puppy puppy!) and pat my leg to get the puppy to follow. Again, Murphy sat there, looked at me, then came running with tail wagging. After three days, Murphy still runs true to form on this.
4 - Roll over dominance - Murphy struggled just a bit, then relaxed with casual eye contact. This test also demonstrates how easily the dog will be handled by others for grooming, vet, etc. This is a 30 second test
I prefer the puppy to struggle a bit then to relax with eye contact. I do stroke the puppy the entire time I do this. The intent is not to intimidate the puppy, but to see if it's willing to give up control.
5 - Elevation dominance - puppy is held by one or two hands across the chest JUST off the ground. (I prefer to let the tips of the grass just brush their feet at times to accentuate almost being i control, but not) - 30 second test
Murphy had no struggle at all. All his littermates were this way and I inquired to the breeders if they carried the puppies around a lot with a hand under the chest and they stated "all the time."
6 - Forgiveness OR Social Domination - the puppy is placed beside the kneeling tester who strokes and coos to the puppy then gives the puppy the freedom to stay or leave. (I've had a lot of puppies run on this one regardless of the other two domination tests)
Murphy maintained about 3 inches of space, but stayed. I accept that or the puppy jumping all over me.. I'll fail submissive roll over as I tend to see this as a sign of passive-agressive manipulation in the dog. I also fail aggressive behavior such as jumping on, growling, and nipping.
7 - Sight sensitivity - Open a big umbrella and drop near puppy. The wind actually caused the umbrella to land over several of Murphy's littter. What I look for it the puppy eventually checks out the umbrella and decides it is not a threat. On this one if the puppy runs, but not far, I'll give it a 2nd chance by calling it with the umbrella between us. The puppy has to deal with the umbrella to get to me to pass.
Murphy jumped then came in and investigated the umbrella. He decided the nylon was a great chew toy.
8 - Unstable ground - For this I brought a 40 by 40 plastic tarp folded up to 8 feet by 3 feet. The puppy was placed on one side and I moved or walked on the tarp to the other side. The puppy had to cross the tarp to get to me. I don't prefer the puppy that just launches into the unknown, but actually respect the puppy that puts a foot out, pushes down on the tarp, then decides it's doable and crosses. Disaster dogs are pushed to check their footing routinely as they navigate a pile. If once the puppy gets on the tarp and decides it's a great playground, I'm fine with letting it have a ball before it gets to me.
Murphy checked footing then crossed to me.
9 - Pain sensitivity - This is a subjective test where I pinch the webbing of a rear foot and slowly increase pressure as I count. Murphy's litter was one of the more stoic litters I've tested in a while with many not responding at all. Murphy jerked at 6 seconds which I consider optimum, but he has a high pain threshold as I checked his feet this morning for goathead burrs and there was at least one in every paw that I had to remove and he took it without bllinking.
10 - Reward System Ball - A puppy size ball is rolled past the puppy's eyes and it does the rest. Best case is the puppy chases, gets the ball, and brings it back to the tester. My 10 y/o did this and she's still ball obsessive to this day.
Murphy chased the ball, stopped it, mouthed it and stayed with it which is acceptable. Most puppies were oblivious.
11 - Prey drive - I used a tail on a fishing line. If I expect a puppy to have high ball drive, I should expect it will chase the tail. I fail a puppy that I can pull off the ground by its mouth on the tail. I'd think the Sch people would love this sort of puppy. Murphy chased the tail down, grabbed at it, but did not catch it and did not continue pursuit. At this point, I'd expect the puppy to realize it's not a living creature. Very high prey drive won't care and will latch on anyway.
12 - Hunt drive - I added a new wrinkle to my test on this. I have a Toys-R-Us tunnel, plastic 18 inches tall, 6 feet long. I tossed a suet cage into it with Subway Roast beef and some sauted chicken gizzards. Four of the puppies hit on the scent. Only two entered the tunnel and made it to the food. Murphy got a second look later and left my lap several times on his own to now race into the tunnel to get at the food. The tunnel was not fixed down, so it tended to roll each time he did this with him rolling with it. He'd lick at the cage then race out, stop, turn around, and race back in for another taste. I have to have a dog whose life is controlled by it's nose.
13 - HR drive - I had four Human Remains sources out for perusal, two at the end of the maze and two out in the open which the puppies were taken past when following me. The two in the open was a pelvic bone in a mesh that wouldn't allow the puppy to get into direct contact with it and a metal basket with dried bone and teeth. Murphy was one of two puppies that tried to pull the mesh up. Murphy tried for 3 seconds which is notable with 6 week old puppies. It's rare to see a puppy to stick with the dried bone and teeth with other options available. Murphy did three nose hits, pausing at the skeletal each time.
14 - Da Maze - Puppies are given the choice of live scent in an recently worn article, food, and HRs. Boxes taller that the puppies were placed in the way. The scent sources were placed such that the HRs were farthest into the maze and overlapped everything else. Food was next to last. Live article was first. Muprhy passed up the live article and the food to get to the HRs and stuck with fresh HRs with decomposed placental tissue for 8 seconds on his first test. On the second look, once he left the food tunnel, he sought out the placental tissue and just settled down to try to get to it (these sources are such that the puppy can never reach the source). I took the placental tissue away after a few minutes and then Murphy found the little body mix with dried components and settled in with that.
So, can I say Murphy will be one heck of a cadaver dog?
He has a minimum of 2 years training, most likely 3 years for the range of human remains I have to search for. During those years there is a lot I can do wrong. There are fear periods that can play havoc with the final outcome. What I can say is I'm starting with a puppy that has all the right stuff up front. His first year will be entirely skeletal and dental training to raise his targeting ability and build a solid foundation in what we have to search for the most. Today he's already been imprinted 8 times on dental as he now knows that going to it and putting his nose on it gets him his new favorite toy from out of no where. If he could only figure out how it keeps coming up missing..........
I give each and every puppy every opportunity to pass a test, but I have to go with the puppy's final answer.
Regards,
Jim Delbridge
My population consists of 9 litters looked at since my 5 y/o Tempe died on May 15. I can't point a finger against show ADTs as one breeder who does both show and hunting was very helpful. We did find a common passion for history and preferring to be out in the field, so he'll be one of those I contact in a couple of years when I look for the next puppy. I have spaced these puppies out by 5 year intervals in the past because .....well, while the benefits of working with a puppy during the 5-16 week interval are well worth the price, this time period is a real pain. While the new dog will eventually be outside with my pack on their 2 acres, I will be his world till at least past 4 months of age. This is to imprint scents, increase IQ, and build a very solid bond between myself and the dog. This is not the type of working dog you'd train and sell off. This is to be a canine working partner for the career of the dog. As Tempe died early, I intend to start another puppy in three years.
This past weekend I looked at two litters. One litter of 7 (2M, 5F) and one litter of 10 (4M, 6F thought one male was taken as pick of the litter and I didn't test it. ....no point). These litters were in two states other than mine, so gas cost me around $100 per litter to test plus pretty much a whole day of my time..
Out of 16 puppies (plus the 7 previous litters) I found one puppy that fulfilled what I had to have to the job. This does not mean to say that I have extremely high standards, but I think as many have discussed that much of the show breeding is pulling the breed away from common scenting abilities. I tried to focus on dogs being bred more for hunting when I could, but hunting can imply prey drive over hunt drive, i.e. more visually oriented than scent driven.
Murphy's results were:
1 Noise Sensitivity - Reaction to Pie Pans throw together and allowed to drop to the ground. Murphy jumped, ran back a few steps, then investigated the source of the noise.
(This is not uncommon to be the highest test for failure as the puppy is allowed to run for the hills. I give the puppy an opportunity to be talked back as long as it will cross the pie pans to get to me)
2 - Social - Puppy is 4-8 feet away and can be coaxed to come to me (after Test 1).
Murphy came readily, tail up. Murphy appears to be a thinker as many of the tests he would sit there then leap up and respond.
Many of the Missouri puppies would come within a foot of me, get my scent and then turn away as they had not experienced many humans other than the breeders.
Note: There is no way to really prepare puppies for this testing. I've had litters that had very minimal contact that loved people and litters that were handled every day that just didn't like the way I smelled.
3 - Following - I leave the puppy and call to it (puppy puppy!) and pat my leg to get the puppy to follow. Again, Murphy sat there, looked at me, then came running with tail wagging. After three days, Murphy still runs true to form on this.
4 - Roll over dominance - Murphy struggled just a bit, then relaxed with casual eye contact. This test also demonstrates how easily the dog will be handled by others for grooming, vet, etc. This is a 30 second test
I prefer the puppy to struggle a bit then to relax with eye contact. I do stroke the puppy the entire time I do this. The intent is not to intimidate the puppy, but to see if it's willing to give up control.
5 - Elevation dominance - puppy is held by one or two hands across the chest JUST off the ground. (I prefer to let the tips of the grass just brush their feet at times to accentuate almost being i control, but not) - 30 second test
Murphy had no struggle at all. All his littermates were this way and I inquired to the breeders if they carried the puppies around a lot with a hand under the chest and they stated "all the time."
6 - Forgiveness OR Social Domination - the puppy is placed beside the kneeling tester who strokes and coos to the puppy then gives the puppy the freedom to stay or leave. (I've had a lot of puppies run on this one regardless of the other two domination tests)
Murphy maintained about 3 inches of space, but stayed. I accept that or the puppy jumping all over me.. I'll fail submissive roll over as I tend to see this as a sign of passive-agressive manipulation in the dog. I also fail aggressive behavior such as jumping on, growling, and nipping.
7 - Sight sensitivity - Open a big umbrella and drop near puppy. The wind actually caused the umbrella to land over several of Murphy's littter. What I look for it the puppy eventually checks out the umbrella and decides it is not a threat. On this one if the puppy runs, but not far, I'll give it a 2nd chance by calling it with the umbrella between us. The puppy has to deal with the umbrella to get to me to pass.
Murphy jumped then came in and investigated the umbrella. He decided the nylon was a great chew toy.
8 - Unstable ground - For this I brought a 40 by 40 plastic tarp folded up to 8 feet by 3 feet. The puppy was placed on one side and I moved or walked on the tarp to the other side. The puppy had to cross the tarp to get to me. I don't prefer the puppy that just launches into the unknown, but actually respect the puppy that puts a foot out, pushes down on the tarp, then decides it's doable and crosses. Disaster dogs are pushed to check their footing routinely as they navigate a pile. If once the puppy gets on the tarp and decides it's a great playground, I'm fine with letting it have a ball before it gets to me.
Murphy checked footing then crossed to me.
9 - Pain sensitivity - This is a subjective test where I pinch the webbing of a rear foot and slowly increase pressure as I count. Murphy's litter was one of the more stoic litters I've tested in a while with many not responding at all. Murphy jerked at 6 seconds which I consider optimum, but he has a high pain threshold as I checked his feet this morning for goathead burrs and there was at least one in every paw that I had to remove and he took it without bllinking.
10 - Reward System Ball - A puppy size ball is rolled past the puppy's eyes and it does the rest. Best case is the puppy chases, gets the ball, and brings it back to the tester. My 10 y/o did this and she's still ball obsessive to this day.
Murphy chased the ball, stopped it, mouthed it and stayed with it which is acceptable. Most puppies were oblivious.
11 - Prey drive - I used a tail on a fishing line. If I expect a puppy to have high ball drive, I should expect it will chase the tail. I fail a puppy that I can pull off the ground by its mouth on the tail. I'd think the Sch people would love this sort of puppy. Murphy chased the tail down, grabbed at it, but did not catch it and did not continue pursuit. At this point, I'd expect the puppy to realize it's not a living creature. Very high prey drive won't care and will latch on anyway.
12 - Hunt drive - I added a new wrinkle to my test on this. I have a Toys-R-Us tunnel, plastic 18 inches tall, 6 feet long. I tossed a suet cage into it with Subway Roast beef and some sauted chicken gizzards. Four of the puppies hit on the scent. Only two entered the tunnel and made it to the food. Murphy got a second look later and left my lap several times on his own to now race into the tunnel to get at the food. The tunnel was not fixed down, so it tended to roll each time he did this with him rolling with it. He'd lick at the cage then race out, stop, turn around, and race back in for another taste. I have to have a dog whose life is controlled by it's nose.
13 - HR drive - I had four Human Remains sources out for perusal, two at the end of the maze and two out in the open which the puppies were taken past when following me. The two in the open was a pelvic bone in a mesh that wouldn't allow the puppy to get into direct contact with it and a metal basket with dried bone and teeth. Murphy was one of two puppies that tried to pull the mesh up. Murphy tried for 3 seconds which is notable with 6 week old puppies. It's rare to see a puppy to stick with the dried bone and teeth with other options available. Murphy did three nose hits, pausing at the skeletal each time.
14 - Da Maze - Puppies are given the choice of live scent in an recently worn article, food, and HRs. Boxes taller that the puppies were placed in the way. The scent sources were placed such that the HRs were farthest into the maze and overlapped everything else. Food was next to last. Live article was first. Muprhy passed up the live article and the food to get to the HRs and stuck with fresh HRs with decomposed placental tissue for 8 seconds on his first test. On the second look, once he left the food tunnel, he sought out the placental tissue and just settled down to try to get to it (these sources are such that the puppy can never reach the source). I took the placental tissue away after a few minutes and then Murphy found the little body mix with dried components and settled in with that.
So, can I say Murphy will be one heck of a cadaver dog?
He has a minimum of 2 years training, most likely 3 years for the range of human remains I have to search for. During those years there is a lot I can do wrong. There are fear periods that can play havoc with the final outcome. What I can say is I'm starting with a puppy that has all the right stuff up front. His first year will be entirely skeletal and dental training to raise his targeting ability and build a solid foundation in what we have to search for the most. Today he's already been imprinted 8 times on dental as he now knows that going to it and putting his nose on it gets him his new favorite toy from out of no where. If he could only figure out how it keeps coming up missing..........
I give each and every puppy every opportunity to pass a test, but I have to go with the puppy's final answer.
Regards,
Jim Delbridge