stopping a dog

[del]

Question

Your dog is off leash, walking down the way with you, ahead of you, and sees a squirrel,/bird/bear/pig. The dog bolts to make the kill.


How can you stop it? Would you want to.? Is there a training tip or device that has worked for you.

thanks

[shawnboryca]

For one if you are worried about your dog running off -- he should be on a leash or some type of control (shock collar). If you own a hunting dog = He is supposed to engage prey!! Let me ask you a question -- I bet you were one of these people that praised Michael Jackson as well and never saw him as a child molestor and a wacko. And you must have voted for Obama. Do us a favor next time your dog runs into traffic = please follow.

[thistlesdale]

A whistle works pretty good for "emergency use." I only blow my whistle when I absolutely have to; & when I do, I only blow it as hard as is absolutely necessary.

More often than not, just a little toot is enough to bring turn him back. Short bursts of air from my mouth, rather than my lungs. I rarely blow hard enough to get the little cork ball bouncing.

This way, when things hairy & I really do have to let her rip, it still produces maximum effect.

[del]

thistlesdale and some others,

If you found that the prey drive might be too strong for the whistle, what might you try next.

[frankyme]

Jun 27, 2009 7:59:35 GMT -5 del said:

thistlesdale and some others,

If you found that the prey drive might be too strong for the whistle, what might you try next.

Like Thistlesdale said the whistle is a great tool. I train to sit on one whistle. Start indoors when the dog is under your complete control, I whistle softly with my lips not a whistle (to start). The dog needs to sit every time quickly without question. Make him sit before every meal. It becomes automatic for them. Start outside in a not so wild place, I live in the country but I can walk him down the street and the neighbors have cats and dogs which are fun to chase. Start with a six foot cord and when he sits every time move him up to a long 20-30' check cord. Keep the dog on check cord and let him start to get interested in something preferably not something you plan to hunt. You don't want to start by breaking him of running a 'coon if he is going to be a coon dog, although eventually he will need to listen to you even when hunting. Don't be predictable sit him when ever it suits you. Have control of him through that check cord. When he will sit every time without help from the cord, take it off. When in a wild place sit the dog a few times before the emergency to make sure he has his ears on.

I personally put way to much faith in the e-collar to break my first 'Dale of running deer. Once an Airedale is running a deer I don't think you can stop him with electricity they get a adrenaline rush I don't think they feel the pain, but blast that whistle and the dog snaps out it. Once the dog is in sit the prey is quickly out of site. At that point it is much easier for the dog to listen to the come command. If he doesn't come don't keep calling, go leash him up and take him home to work on recall in a controlled area.
Frank

[Ryan]

Yooper -

Dont feed the troll. If you deprive him of food he'll shrivel up and die under his bridge.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[shawnboryca]

Jun 27, 2009 21:45:52 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Yooper -

Dont feed the troll. If you deprive him of food he'll shrivel up and die under his bridge.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I'm not a troll. I just have a very different train of thought on how a dog should be trained and how a dog should react. I don't let my dogs out of the yard without e-collars and tracking collars. I encourage prey drive instead of detouring it. If I want to keep my dog restrained I keep him on a leash or tied up. A jag terrier will make you realize how important a tracking collar is. I don't have companion animals = I have hunters.

[frankyme]

Jun 27, 2009 6:34:30 GMT -5 shawnboryca said:

Let me ask you a question -- I bet you were one of these people that praised Michael Jackson as well and never saw him as a child molestor and a wacko. And you must have voted for Obama. Do us a favor next time your dog runs into traffic = please follow.

Jun 30, 2009 9:54:41 GMT -5 shawnboryca said:

I'm not a troll.

Sure you're not Troll, now back under your bridge! ;D

[Undercover Cowboy]

Franky..

What kind of e collar did you have that would not stop your dog from chasing deer? I have a tri tronics trash breaker and on the highest level you can actually make one do a flip..

[frankyme]

Jun 30, 2009 11:28:03 GMT -5 Undercover Cowboy said:

Franky..

What kind of e collar did you have that would not stop your dog from chasing deer? I have a tri tronics trash breaker and on the highest level you can actually make one do a flip..

I originally had a tri tronics a hound dog friend gave me. The dog would react at releatively low intensity without any distractions, he jumped a deer and I hit him, uped the level, hit him again, uped it, hit him, ran after him, saw the deer and then him on its ass, hit him. He would flinch and then keep going. I eventually cut him off and used my voice to stop him. I wasn't using my voice at the same time as the ecollar for breaking him of running the deer. From what I've read/heard that is a not a good idea.

I now use an Innotek, much smaller lighter collar. It is not as good in the woods or long range but I'm not using it as a trash breaker. I do use it in low distraction, off lead reinforcement training. As I said I found the whistle and check cord to be a better tools for me to train him that deer are not to be chased. I'm also not a fur hunter so my dog is nearly always in visual and or vocal contact.

Frank

[shawnboryca]

cowboyvon -- I agree tritronics is the way too go. I also have the real Invisible Fence Company underground fence system = the beefed up one. You can't drag them out of the perimeter of that area. You get what you pay for.

[jackie]

Jun 26, 2009 21:20:37 GMT -5 del said:

Question

Your dog is off leash, walking down the way with you, ahead of you, and sees a squirrel,/bird/bear/pig. The dog bolts to make the kill.


How can you stop it? Would you want to.? Is there a training tip or device that has worked for you.

thanks

These were the original questions asked.
Answer: If the dog is off leash and hasn't had extensive obedience training and it is an Airedale (in particular) then you should assume that it will react and chase anything that moves quickly and looks furry or feathery or just plain moves fast...my Airedales will quickly react to anything that moves, for instance even blowing paper or thistle puffs, especially if they are fresh. Airedales need lots of exercise (hard) daily. You should assume you will have no control once a hot pursuit begins. So, unless you have given the dog extensive obedience training you will have to use a leash to have absolute control.
How can you stop it? Answer: A leash or extensive obedience and/or retriever training. Electronic collars have been mentioned above. These can be excellent tools if you know what you are doing. You can ruin your dog also by not knowing how to handle the collar. The best book I know of on obedience/retriever training and electronic collars is put out by Jim and Phyllis Dobbs of Marysville, CA, called "Tritronics Retriever Training" (1993). Get it before you get the collar (whatever type)and do the basic obedience groundwork it explains first. Then think about getting a collar...or you might explore other methods as well. The main commands you will need to teach your dog are the Sit Whistle and Hear and/or Come commands as applicable to your question(s). The Dobbs book explains these well.

The old adage "Never give a command you don't intend to enforce." Is generally always true with dogs. So if your dog runs after something and you start calling its name you are only teaching it that it can run away while you call its name.

Would you want to? You should want to have control of your dog, life is much more fun for both of you that way. The opposite is frustration and dangerous situations for both you and your dog. Where I'm from, a dog running say cattle, sheep, game or someone's cat is fair game to be shot. Also, getting hit by a car can happen. Or your dog just might get lost and someone else find it and keep it while you are out searching for it. Most Airedales though are fairly good at finding there way back and hunting comes very naturally! ;D.

Is there a training tip or advice that has worked for you? Well, I joined this site as well as picked the brains of anyone who has shown they know something about dogs, Airedales in particular and hunting dogs second. I learned a lot just by going to the training threads and started in reading and I've had good advice here from several people. I also have read books and watched dog training videos. These have helped me greatly. And I have worked with my dogs. They are rabbit hunting son-of-a-guns. That is the key, actually getting out with your dogs and training and/or working them. The more exercise and attention they have the easier they are to train. You can do both at the same time, but make sure and have some time for just fun with no pressure, if all you are doing that day is training. Hunting is always fun for an Airedale. If you want your dog off leash then take it somewhere where it won't matter if it is off leash.

Dell good luck with your dog and Happy Hunting or Training!
Jackie

[oksaradt]

The crux of this issue is that most people don't deal with this until it happens. Why should it be a surprise that any dog, especially a terrier would chase moving prey? Dog training....sorry Successful dog training is all about being proactive. Before you ever allow your canine to be off-lead, you should have the utmost confidence in its off-lead obedience. Unless you are running the dogs like a mob in the woods after prey, you should have expectations on your dog's behavior.
Using a stim-collar is the crutch of the owner/handler that wants a quick fix that our society seems to believe is the only way.
How do I stop my dogs from chasing a cat when they are working scent along a major highway? By months of set-ups through out their training where I take advantage of squirrels, feral cats, possums, whatver. If you wait until the dog goes into prey mode, it's too late. If you wait until the dog moves, it's definitely too late. The dog will assume prey posture in areas it believes there are prey opportunities and that's easy to read. You have convinced the dog that it's more fun and rewarding to mind the handler for not chasing the prey by a balance of correction and reward for desired behavior.
This is not rocket science. This is the way it's been done way before anyone consider zotting the dog either with a hard jolt to wake it up or with a mild stim to irritate and remind it. If someone does use a stim collar, they need to be trained on it as with any dog training aid, consistency and timing is key. Zot the dog at the wrong time and you've either increased its prey drive or corrected it for the wrong thing. Knock it on its ass and you haven't trained it at all. The macho ego is stroked, but beer and lies do the same thing for that. For those that like to shock the crap out of their dog as a correction, I suggest they have someone else do it to them a couple of times with the same setting to decide how effective it is.


I have to train my dogs to ignore the rabbit that bolts right past their eyes so that we can locate that tooth to get DNA to identify the remains. As this is tough enough for all involved the first time, I'm definitely not going to allow my dog to break. Start when the dog is young with a long line, throw chains, and a properly timed verbal correction and *cough* *laugh* "pressure" (I just love this politically correct term for shock stimulus) is never required. Reward the dog for turning away and the correction response is amplified. Way too many handlers only remember to correct and not to reward the desired response. That's the biggest mistake I observe with other handlers.

Dogs have been with us for thousands of years and our ancestors somehow trained them just fine without ever needing a transmitter, batteries, and studded collar. That we seem to need them now just comments on how much the art of dog training has slipped away as so many other crafts with the video-quick solution-society. There's no magic secret to dog training. It's all baby steps from day one of you and the dog. It's timing and consistenc. it's correct AND reward. Those are all the magic secrets any dog trainer/handler really needs. The rest is just costly toys and marketing.

Jim Delbridge

[shawnboryca]

Jul 2, 2009 8:51:24 GMT -5 oksaradt said:

The crux of this issue is that most people don't deal with this until it happens. Why should it be a surprise that any dog, especially a terrier would chase moving prey? Dog training....sorry Successful dog training is all about being proactive. Before you ever allow your canine to be off-lead, you should have the utmost confidence in its off-lead obedience. Unless you are running the dogs like a mob in the woods after prey, you should have expectations on your dog's behavior.
Using a stim-collar is the crutch of the owner/handler that wants a quick fix that our society seems to believe is the only way.
How do I stop my dogs from chasing a cat when they are working scent along a major highway? By months of set-ups through out their training where I take advantage of squirrels, feral cats, possums, whatver. If you wait until the dog goes into prey mode, it's too late. If you wait until the dog moves, it's definitely too late. The dog will assume prey posture in areas it believes there are prey opportunities and that's easy to read. You have convinced the dog that it's more fun and rewarding to mind the handler for not chasing the prey by a balance of correction and reward for desired behavior.
This is not rocket science. This is the way it's been done way before anyone consider zotting the dog either with a hard jolt to wake it up or with a mild stim to irritate and remind it. If someone does use a stim collar, they need to be trained on it as with any dog training aid, consistency and timing is key. Zot the dog at the wrong time and you've either increased its prey drive or corrected it for the wrong thing. Knock it on its ass and you haven't trained it at all. The macho ego is stroked, but beer and lies do the same thing for that. For those that like to shock the crap out of their dog as a correction, I suggest they have someone else do it to them a couple of times with the same setting to decide how effective it is.


I have to train my dogs to ignore the rabbit that bolts right past their eyes so that we can locate that tooth to get DNA to identify the remains. As this is tough enough for all involved the first time, I'm definitely not going to allow my dog to break. Start when the dog is young with a long line, throw chains, and a properly timed verbal correction and *cough* *laugh* "pressure" (I just love this politically correct term for shock stimulus) is never required. Reward the dog for turning away and the correction response is amplified. Way too many handlers only remember to correct and not to reward the desired response. That's the biggest mistake I observe with other handlers.

Dogs have been with us for thousands of years and our ancestors somehow trained them just fine without ever needing a transmitter, batteries, and studded collar. That we seem to need them now just comments on how much the art of dog training has slipped away as so many other crafts with the video-quick solution-society. There's no magic secret to dog training. It's all baby steps from day one of you and the dog. It's timing and consistenc. it's correct AND reward. Those are all the magic secrets any dog trainer/handler really needs. The rest is just costly toys and marketing.

Jim Delbridge

I rather have my dog bolt and catch the rabbit = can't eat a tooth.
People have been dying since there have been people; only recently do we care to find the dead. I guess your point can be taken how ever one interprets it.

[Undercover Cowboy]

Jim,

I take it you don't like the use of shock collars or stimulation collars. Have you ever been involved with training trailing dogs for pursuit of big game in particular dry ground hunting. Freecasting what I guess you would call a mob.. more than 2 dogs..?

Sometimes I wonder what people envision or at least how they envision the way our dogs work and how we hunt?