jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Feb 25, 2010 12:33:46 GMT -5
[quote
Nothing personaly towards you Jax, but your cousin tends to think higher of himself than most others do.
Jim [/quote]
Aren't you the consumate professional? This is totally out of bounds, the man is family, and I do take it personally when a self-absorbed, illmannered individual, who has never met Michael and has NO experience with the dogs he has trained, feels it productive to write something like this. What is the point other than to attempt to make yourself look better at the expense of another? I asked him for those comments in a genuine attempt to help Wayne understand. "Most others" ...who might these people be ? I don't have a clue, but I do know that the folks at Lackland and dozens of law enforcement handlers are not among them. I will suggest that you may spend some time working on your fragile self esteem and reputation issues...privately.
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Post by oksaradt on Feb 25, 2010 12:50:30 GMT -5
[quote Nothing personaly towards you Jax, but your cousin tends to think higher of himself than most others do. Jim Aren't you the consumate professional? This is totally out of bounds, the man is family, and I do take it personally when a self-absorbed, illmannered individual, who has never met Michael and has NO experience with the dogs he has trained, feels it productive to write something like this. What is the point other than to attempt to make yourself look better at the expense of another? I asked him for those comments in a genuine attempt to help Wayne understand. "Most others" ...who might these people be ? I don't have a clue, but I do know that the folks at Lackland and dozens of law enforcement handlers are not among them. I will suggest that you may spend some time working on your fragile self esteem and reputation issues...privately. [/quote] 1) He attempted to impune my reputation on this list by association. It's on the SAR lists, you find it if you wish. 2) Any one that gets excited over a malinois that forces his handler to wear steel gloves (so the handler doesn't get bit) to work his dog worries me....but that's just me. 3) He decided when he left this list that his words were just too valuable to leave here for the rif raff, so he took them all off. 4) I watched a video of him working a narc demo. I didn't see anything there that inspired me to learn from him. Am I am expert? Heck NO! I've been put in the position of "expert" professionally too many times to ever consider that a valid label. I do work for the military. Lackland thinking highly of him doesn't do a whole lot for me either. I wish him well with that. I was simply trying to politely notify you that by stating something came from Mr. Delee that many would immediately discount it. You present a lot of valid opinions of you own. You don't need his opinion to muddy the waters. I have a nephew that breeds Danes. I don't think much of the way that he does it. I love him like he's my own child, but I'd never send anyone to him for a puppy. Family is one thing. Dogs are another. Respectfully, Jim Delbridge
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jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Feb 26, 2010 15:36:31 GMT -5
OK Jim
"1) He attempted to impune my reputation on this list by association. It's on the SAR lists, you find it if you wish."
Isn't that what you did to Hal Standish with your "Shame" post? In any event it sounds as tho you think you have a personal problem with Michael. Take it up with him, personaly, and don't slam someone you don't know. It isn't professional.
"2) Any one that gets excited over a malinois that forces his handler to wear steel gloves (so the handler doesn't get bit) to work his dog worries me....but that's just me."
I assure you, you would not make such a comment if you ever had the opportunity to see Michael excited.If were a Malinois man he'd promote Malinois. It takes quite a bit to excite him and I doubt this did. Maybe you misinterpreted this in this fashion? Or was it just a covenient "nonissue" for you to raise?
"3) He decided when he left this list that his words were just too valuable to leave here for the rif raff, so he took them all off." As you should know, the writing posted on internet discussion lists belongs to the author, not the list. If he removed anything he did it for what he thought was a good reason. You have never met the man, but you do like to "explain" his thinking and motives. Rif raf? I very seriously doubt he ever said such a thing.
"4) I watched a video of him working a narc demo. I didn't see anything there that inspired me to learn from him."
So what? Maybe you don't need his expertise. Then again maybe you do. I don't know; but what is the point other than a "slam" at his expense so you look like the real deal? Why don't you put up one of your videos and let's see how many people you impress? I'll even get him a copy so he can critique you. Better yet we can post both videos and take a vote as to who, what, and etc
" I do work for the military. Lackland thinking highly of him doesn't do a whole lot for me either. I wish him well with that. "
Let's see here....The Secret Service, the FBI, the Border Patrol all branches of the military and, nationwide, many state agencies get their dogs from Lackland. Maybe you should let the joint chiefs, the head of Whitehouse Security, the Dr of FBI and all the others know that the great Jim Delbridge isn't impressed with their efforts. Oh and...Good luck with that!
"I was simply trying to politely notify you that by stating something came from Mr. Delee that many would immediately discount it. "
No, you were not. You were talking trash. Who is "many" and do they train dogs? Have they ever met the man? Have they ever seen his dogs work?
"You present a lot of valid opinions of you own. You don't need his opinion to muddy the waters."
As I said, I asked him for his help and he responded. None of his commentary was opinion, by my book. Of course you had ample opportunity to respond to the simple question about reward schedules....and didn't. Instead you chose to slam someone you do not know and have NO knowledge of. Maybe you don't know about reward schedules either?
"Family is one thing. Dogs are another."
I agree. Leave it to dogs. If you are a professional, act like one and curb your arrogance.
With all due respect, J. A. E.
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Post by doylecpd on Feb 26, 2010 19:36:06 GMT -5
My word Jax, why are you so defensive over something that doesn't even concern you. You remind me of my grandma.....she can talk crap about her brothers all day long but the minute you say something, the world has turned upside down and we're all of a sudden in that new Alice in Wonderland movie coming out.
Relax....its not a fist fight.
As for the governments expertise in matters. I don't know what is best in this subject but looking to the government to know what they are doing and assuming that is best is a dangerous assumption. The military now wants to put women on submarines, have openly gay people serve (whats next transgenders...), the Secret Service still use mainframe computers, our planes that refuel fighter jets, date back to the 40+ years, and on and on.
This isn't to say the government doesn't also do some things well, but it is hard to say because the monitoring over contract work is full of officials with $$$ flowing all over the place. Who knows how some people receive contracts....they could just know the right person. Something may work, but in all honesty, there is no way to tell which way is best, as there is not enough numbers and testing between different systems to know.
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Post by oksaradt on Feb 28, 2010 18:24:20 GMT -5
Jax, You’re a good cousin. Was I trying to impugn Hal’s reputation as a trainer? Nope. I didn’t agree with the lesson plans described to me, but I have every faith that Hal is an excellent trainer in the style he has developed skills in. As for the Malinois tape, I first traded email many years ago with Michael because he invited me to a special list of his own. He shared the mpg of the French Counter Terrorist Canine program. He followed this up with he would love to see the same outcome for the Airedale. Considering the Airedale, just like the Doberman, went through its period of being perceived as too aggressive, I felt this was counter-productive to the breed.
Anything that goes on the Internet is public domain from the time it hits a public site. If he didn’t want his opinions to be shared with the world then he should never have posted them. His very public act of deleting every post he’d made on this list was simply that.
Discussing any of the rest just perpetuates a pissin’ contest. Think of me what you will, my attitudes are solely bent on what I feel is best for the dog and the breed, not on my ego nor the work my dogs do.
Jim
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jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Mar 1, 2010 10:37:57 GMT -5
My word Jax, why are you so defensive over something that doesn't even concern you. You remind me of my grandma.....she can talk crap about her brothers all day long but the minute you say something, the world has turned upside down and we're all of a sudden in that new Alice in Wonderland movie coming out. Relax....its not a fist fight. As for the governments expertise in matters. I don't know what is best in this subject but looking to the government to know what they are doing and assuming that is best is a dangerous assumption. The military now wants to put women on submarines, have openly gay people serve (whats next transgenders...), the Secret Service still use mainframe computers, our planes that refuel fighter jets, date back to the 40+ years, and on and on. This isn't to say the government doesn't also do some things well, but it is hard to say because the monitoring over contract work is full of officials with $$$ flowing all over the place. Who knows how some people receive contracts....they could just know the right person. Something may work, but in all honesty, there is no way to tell which way is best, as there is not enough numbers and testing between different systems to know. Doyle Your Grandma sounds like a fine Lady. She is the kind of Lady that I hope my daughters grow up to respect and model. Good family values and loyalty are not as common today as they were when I was coming up. It does concern me though. I know Michael is world class at pissing people off. I also know he is very, very good at training dogs. I don't really care if people agree with him or not. That isn't the point. How that disagreement is handled is the point and in this situation I felt Jim handled it poorly. As for the government.....you have made some valid and popular points. It is easy to criticize Uncle Sam but the real problem is with guys like you and I. You and I are the goobers who continue to send the same ineffectual self serving bunch of charlatans back to do the job in Congress which they never had the intention to do. We all bitch about the problems and then come election time we perpetuate it with our votes. Sad but true. Still the USA is the finest place on the planet. God Bless America!
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jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Mar 1, 2010 10:51:19 GMT -5
Jax, You’re a good cousin. Was I trying to impugn Hal’s reputation as a trainer? Nope. I didn’t agree with the lesson plans described to me, but I have every faith that Hal is an excellent trainer in the style he has developed skills in. As for the Malinois tape, I first traded email many years ago with Michael because he invited me to a special list of his own. He shared the mpg of the French Counter Terrorist Canine program. He followed this up with he would love to see the same outcome for the Airedale. Considering the Airedale, just like the Doberman, went through its period of being perceived as too aggressive, I felt this was counter-productive to the breed. Anything that goes on the Internet is public domain from the time it hits a public site. If he didn’t want his opinions to be shared with the world then he should never have posted them. His very public act of deleting every post he’d made on this list was simply that. Discussing any of the rest just perpetuates a pissin’ contest. Think of me what you will, my attitudes are solely bent on what I feel is best for the dog and the breed, not on my ego nor the work my dogs do. Jim You seem to want to continue the pissing contest and I don't. As I have told you, I do not want to argue with you or anyone else. You take second hand info on someone you don't know, like Hal, and form an immediate opinion which you feel is worthy of stating. You base your statements re Michael on something that happened years ago and expect me to buy your version? This is too nebulas for me. I am here to learn. You have taught me that you don't care for my cousin. Fine, you are certainly entitled to that feeling. I would appreciate it if you kept your feeling to yourself, and didn't generalize with commentary that isn't true. Let's get back to dogs and leave it there.
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