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Rewards
Apr 13, 2010 12:58:38 GMT -5
Post by rthonor on Apr 13, 2010 12:58:38 GMT -5
Jim, do you reward with food? Beside the GSD and ACD you saw, I have 2 mal puppies that I am starting. They have some toy drive, but not as much as I had hoped. They prefer food. I would prefer toy drive but maybe its out of my hands. Your thoughts?
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Rewards
Apr 13, 2010 14:00:02 GMT -5
Post by oksaradt on Apr 13, 2010 14:00:02 GMT -5
A toy or ball reward system with a secondary food reinforcer is best for multiple reasons.
1)Rewarding with only food can easily create an association within the dog where it sees the human remains as an acceptable means of self-rewarding. Granted, the dogs that make the best HRD dogs really like the stuff, but must be convinced that the reward is better.
2) Rewarding with a ball or toy allows the handler to reward from a distance AND/OR to reward with the "poof" mentality, i.e. the dog never sees where the reward comes from, convincing itself that the HR scent source makes the reward appear. For me, this means I can throw a reward to my dog 20-30 yards away where it makes a find that will take us humans some time to get to.
3) Invariably in training, rewarding with food is going to contaminate the scent sources. Many handlers that do just food reward try to go to a food reward that doesn't crumble or drip, but sooner or later the scent source is going to be tainted with your food reward. After that, you have to be concerned that the dog becomes an expert at finding your food rather than human remains.
4) If you reward with only a ball, then consider two balls. I worked with a GSD handler recently that is ball crazy, but the dog was getting bored with only one ball as well. It's a fairly common trick to have two reward toys handy and use the reward to burn off a little too much energy while bringing the dog's drive up. Some handlers use 1-foot sections of rubber hose instead, but still use two where the dog's reward is multiple fast-paced short retrieves where the dog is constantly stimulated.
What I suggest is that off-line you create an association with the puppies that the toy means food is coming just like the clicker trainers do. I reinforce the retrieve in my reward system by the dog always knows that bringing the ball back to me gets a food reward trade, i.e. a secondary reinforcer. With dogs with less than high ball drive, you can get toys where you can load them with food (for the scent), the dog goes after the toy for the smell, gets frustrated with not being able to get the food and brings the ball to you, and you trade the toy for food. You also praise the dog for bringing the toy to you.
A lot of this also depends on "the sell". I worked with a handler today who uses a kong with the dog as reward and then trades for wienie slices. After three finds, the puppy appeared to lose interest in the kong. I asked if I could try. I became "Mr. Happy", teased the dog with the kong, asked for a find, got it, made a big production of throwing the kong and in the dog bringing it back. We got roughly ten more finds on the same source because Mr. Happy was throwing the ball and quit because I felt it was enough. We left the dog wanting more which is where you always want to end. It also turns out that the dog was getting to play toss at home for free, so the new rule is if the handler wants to play ball with the dog then HRs must be placed out first. I don't care if the dog finds the same scent source 30, 40, 50 times, but that's the only way the dog gets to play ball as the act of retrieving has become part of the reward system.
Many handlers try to lean on just the ball, toy, whatever as enough for the dog. Remember even a Mal has the mentality of at 5-8 year old, albeit one on "speed", but still a child. The child enjoys being entertained and will work a lot harder to be entertained than for the handler that just mumbles, "good dawg" as the ball is lobbed their direction. Part of training any dog from puppy is learning what "lights up its world". In my case I pick a puppy to train that I already know has high ball drive at an early age. Even then I have to remember to apply "the sell" and make sure the dog likes this particular toy for texture, sound, whatever. My reward is not the result of a compulsion fetch that I use an ear pinch or e-collar to demand it take the ball. The ball/toy has to be something the dog literally goes ga-ga over. Maybe in your Mals cases that might be a cloth frisbee that they can bring to you for a tug and trade for food.
With my current puppy's case, if I dont' make the reward good enough then he's just as happy to go get the bones for himself. I can't complain that he likes HRs better than a crappy reward. It keeps me on my toes.
Many people in law enforcement are big John Wayne fans. The movie, Big Jake, has done more damage to handlers than any other I can think of. The Duke has (what looks like a terv-mix) perform all sorts of acts and to desist in such acts all on the simple neutral tone uttered, "DAWWWWG". No one sees the handlers off-camera that worked hours, days, or weeks to get each act sharp with their Mr. Happy routines and series of baby-steps commands. (Sorry, probably a bit off-topic, but a pet peeve of mine.)
Hope that helps,
Jim
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Rewards
Apr 14, 2010 12:38:19 GMT -5
Post by rthonor on Apr 14, 2010 12:38:19 GMT -5
I am going to try some of the suggestions.
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