Post by jacks on Jun 28, 2010 14:18:42 GMT -5
I was thrown a couple days ago and ain't doing much. Thought I might chime in and recap the doings with Odette as a general interest topic, or maybe not interest but information.
Cuz and crew left yesterday and Michael says Odette is finished and ready to do her job. As you may recall, the wife engineered this aquisition of a Jagd puppy bitch and Cuz has supervised the training. Lots of people have punched in on this but Michael has been the overseer evaluator and hands on man from day 1. A very enlightening experience.
Odette has for several weeks now spent her nights out side "on patrol" as Cuz calls it. She likes the work and understands that this is her job, keep the pigs out of Jo Anna's gardens. It was, at first, hard on my girls but they now understand it and like the idea.
After her initial introduction to the ranch and boot camp, Odette got it together and began to gel. Cuz started with the simple basics. Basic obedience and predatory stimulation started and were complete to Cuz' satisfaction in less than 2 weeks. Sit, recall, down, stand, stay and heel ..all introduced, understood and complied with by a pup less than 2 months of age. The predatory stimulus was even more impressive.
Cuz used goats, fawns, calves a house cat and a couple other critters as shills to teach Odette that these kinds of critters were ok to investigate but never to abuse. She was having a struggle until Hutto brought in a dozen piglets and Odette had her world ROCKED. Cuz only comment was, "I like this pup, she has a lot of sand"
Michael took one of the the piglets whacked it on the shoulder and tossed it into a makeshift pin. JoAnna held Odette and Cuz climbed into the pin. He fell over and began squealing and crawling and whinening and caterwalling until Odette was about crazy and had JoAnna let her slip. Odette charged the piglet and engaged like a runaway nike missle. It was amazing to see and impressive that a puppy of about 9-10 weeks possesed this much power and strength and drive. He did it twice more with fresh piglets and called it a day.
The next day was essentially a repeat with some minor modifications. First was the piglet as described. Then he did the same thing with the cat, except he did not do any noise. Just lay down and wiggled and crawled. Odette reacted like she did with the pig let. Made the mistake Cuz was waiting on. He popped her once on the flank with my quirt gave her a LOUD "ANNNNH" and pulled her away. He repeated this twice. Let her have a piglet and then the cat and called it a day.
This format was repeated with the other shills. Two weeks later Odetee would get in a pin with any of these shills and sniff em but not molest them. Now she acts like their presence is part of her world and acceptable.
Night patrol started on the next visit. Her first few nights outdoor were as one would expect. Lots of noise and hard on the daughters. We all got very little sleep and Odette was confused about being abandoned. Cuz remedied that on the next visit in two nights. He and Hutto brought wild, stinky boar/sow scent a bunch of orange rags and set the training.
This was too pretty simple. First night there he didn't even train.
He just walked and talked with Odette while he walked the perimeter. Then he and Hutto would switch and Hutto did the walking and talking. Next night it began with stinky boar/sow scent on orange rags around and outside the fence. These were hung in shrubs trees and semi buried in the ground. When she'd tell him she was in the cone, he'd give he a quick "Ata Girl" and as if by magic a piglet would appear. She would have her fight and it was over. The he began adding the shills again and by weeks end Odette was engaging piglets in the gardens with 5 different species of shills in it while she hunted and engaged the piglets. Not once did Odette go after a shill. She did knock a couple down because they were in the way but she never engaged one. He began introducing the obedience into all this as well. It was very impressive to see the little dog complie with the
training directives knowing her target was right there in front of her. If she did what he imposed, Cuz let her fight and wool the piglets to her hearts content. If she didn't, she was leashed and had to watch as Cuz or one of the other guys fought her pig. Odette hated this and squalled like she was being iviscerated. But next time around she did what Cuz ordered when he ordered her to do it and waited to self reward with a piglet fight.
The other interesting aspect of this was training Odete to pick her "hides" as Cuz calls em. In this part of Texas, the prevailing wind is usually out of the SE. The weather, temperature and season all have an impact on wind direction. What this means, according to Cuz is that Tuesday night air flow may be ideal for Odette to lie in wait at the Madron tree on the NW corner of the garden but then Wed night new weather has rolled in and she won't have the range or constancy of wind to let her smell what is or isn't out there. Cuzs remedy was to have us get 6 of the insulted bee hive shaped dog boxes to set up around the gardens perimeters. They all are somewhat elevated but they all sit on the ground. He got the girls involved by sleeping on old towels and such and putting them in the boxes. Fresh ones evreyday . He explained to the girls that Odette was like a sister who took comfort in smelling their scents and "sleeping" with her sisters. I spent almost $300 on the boxes and groused about Michael spending my $$$$. It was and is worth every penny. On any given night, you can walk out in the gardens and Odette will come in from the hide SHE chose and check in. It amazes me that I can only guess about where she is until she approaches. Usually I am wrong about where I think she'll come in. It does not take long and she always comes in. No command, no recall no noise. She is on the clock and if I am in her space she comes in to check out what I am doing on her ground.
The next month or so will be fairly ineffective for Odette. She is dropping her milk teeth and her permanents are maybe a month or a little longer away. Cuz says this is her weakest point in life at this job. Power training and desire won't help her much if a big hog invades and she engages it. If she can't bite in the fight she could get killed. Josh and I decided that we would sleep on the proches every night until Odettes new teeth showed up. Like most things on the ranch, it does not really matter what I or Josh or any of the other men think or decide. The girls usually trump the decision and we get new directives we hadn't thought of. So now my entire family is camping on the porches every night. The girls all now how to shoot and even JoJo has her 410 at the ready.
It may make some parents uncomfortable to think about a situation like this and responding to it like this. It is the way we live. I have good solid children. They know what guns are for and they know how to use them. They are very safety conscious due to spending time with Cuz and I. They are also absolutely reliable
with them. The girls in particular love their roles as protectors of Odette and I can assure you that should Odette alert to a big sounder one of my little girls is gonna introduce a pig to the Grim Man.
While all this has been going on, Michael and the other dog men
and I have had numerous conversations, various things I have read by all you here, I have asked about and listened to their perspectives and compared them with yours. It is an education I feel very privilidged to be getting. I thank you all.
Some of Cuz commentary is going to surprise a few of you. As David Allan Cole said on the song, "I feel obligated to include it on this song..." so here it goes.
Cuz feels like every mans life has 3 basic compartments. Focus balance and passion. Each is as important as the other. It is how a man lives with it and defines it that makes him individually independent and unique. When he explained this from his perspective in the beginning I didn't catch it but I do now.
The passion that fuels Michael is training Airedales. He knows them and understands them. He studies constantly what others are doing and why they do what they do. Always questioning. How can this be? Can I effectively apply this? This sounds like horse nuts to me, does it work? The balance he pays attention to keeps him fresh and energized and prevents burn out. He thinks nothing unusal about going to the range and burning several hundred rounds without a dog in sight. Then he goes back to the passion and the dogs. Focus is what we make it, obviously. I am not talking about paying attention. I am talking about a broader higher attentiveness. When I watch him train, I am always aware of how quiet he is. He will spend 10, 20, 30 minutes with a training exercise and one dog and never say a word. If I try to ask a question or make a comment he likely doesn't even hear it. He never answers it. On the other side of this is that it is obvious that between he and the dog a hell of a lot is being exchanged and understood.
I asked him about the evaluating litters thread and some of the commentary in. His response surprised me. All that started in Switzerland in the mid 1920s, which I didn't know. It came into main line dog training in a book by (sp ? ) Faffenbarger in the mid 1960s. Popular for years and made a must do by writer trainers like Richard Wolters. Bottomline? Canines are by and large to maliable at such young ages to make prognostications about their futures as hunters or workers or companions. Then he gave me the science from the Sweedish Working Dog Center investigating the data from over 50 years of breeding working dogs, the puppy tests and evaluations and the dogs effectiveness as working dogs. Hundreds of dogs were part of this study and all bred to work. The conclusion was that the Swedes could not coraborate a coralation between a puppy test, litter evaluation and the predictability of success of a given study subject as an adult working dog. He has an extremely poor opinion about the Volhards and their, "Bull nuts". He knows they copyrighted the puppy test stuff after the Fuller & Scott study and after the copyrighted Faffenberger book experied. He thinks it intellectually dishonest and a $$$$ chase.
This vein is as well consistent with the super puppy stuff currently being pushed by Dr (sp?) Battaglia. What we now call Super Dog started half way around the world during the cold war in Russia by the same scientists that developed the Black Russian Terrier. Thru scientific contacts the info they were claiming as valid made it over here and got the attention of the DoD who jumped on. The American version was essentially a test to determine if their was anything to the Russian cliams. The dogs and the program was never called Super Dog when it was up and running. The canines were refered to as Bio Sensers. This study began and ended in Maryland. It began in the mid 60s and was closed in 1974. The famous Dr Michael Foxx was integral to this study but perhaps a dozen other world class Americans were as well. CBS news got the Bio Sensor dog program closed on a news show depicting how the American military establishment was pissing away tax $$$$ by putting puppies into small machines like centrofuges and spinning for a few seconds to see if that had any effect, measurable, on health intellingence etc. It did and it does have a beneficial effect on a puppy. Cuz will tell you at the git go, "I am not a scientist. I think that the litters I raised all benefited from the experense. I just can't honestly tell you how much or to what extent as a positive deferences made to an individual or litter because I had nothing to compare it too." He has talked extensevly with 1960-70 era working dog handlers who used Bio Sensor dogs in the field. Everyone said that the dogs were superior in many ways. That was their conviction from personal observations based on real work and real situations. Cuz believes in it but ads a caveat....avoid Battaglia unless you like the idea of making his cash redgister ring. Look for the book by Fogle, a Canadian vet who has several out, and follow what he describes. It is the most accurate stuff in print on the topic.
An Airedaler named Burmaster has a book out about this same thing. Cuz met the Lady and talked with her. He thinks she is a hoot. She is a clicker trainer and very well regarded. Her program is very time intensive and the feedback from people who have used it is all good. Cuz hasn't read her book or her program. His comments were all based on her conversation with him at a HWA thing they attended in Ohio a few years ago. Cuz said, "I think differently about the breed and its prospects than Corally does.
She is a very smart lady and very likeable. Her "noggin" work is different than mine and she feels satisfied and comfortable with where she gets and how she gets there. Plus she is into clicker which I feel is way below my paygrade as a trainer. She uses clicker the way I use other things and gets the same or very similar results. Plus I can never keep track of the damn things and am not much of a gadget guy. It is an implement I do not personally use and wont personally use. I have used them to help the guys who have timing issues and they have made good success with it. But there are no clickers in my tool box." As to her program he said it like this, " Jax you want to haul Odette to the park and play, do it. You want to build a puppy play ground in the garden, do it. You want to have the gardens eaten again because your pet doesn't have a clue, do it. I got you from Tim a fine prospect for the work you want done by one dog over its lifetime. I don't have time for games and bull nuts. Your move."
So we didn't use the ladies ideas or thoughts in any way I am aware of. I do have a puppy Jagd that lives at nights in the gardens and hunts pigs. It is what we wanted.
Some of you other guys....
Mr Delbridge is one. You and Cuz don't get along at all. I find that curious. I asked him specificly about you. Michael said this, "I wouldn't know the man if I bumped into him at the mall. Probably he is smart focused and passionate. He does a niche that is way above my paygrade. He may be light years above (sp?) Serotuck or he may be a goober. I don't know and can't honestly say. My personal and fervant hope is that because he is an Airedaler he is damn good at what he does and what he does with his working dogs is at least as good as anyone anywhere else on the planet. When you are on that plane it is a whole different ball game. You are a peer. That is not a pass. It is the hardest test of all because it is constant. f**k up on the essentials and you are kicked to the curb. For all I know Beldridge can be the guy who finds Jimmy Hoffa. Hope he has an Airedale on that job." And further, "He just decided to nettle me over some thing of no consequence I can't even recall. And he insulted me and pissed me off. But that has little to do with the essentials. It is like Watson and Krick, Holmes and Watson, Lenon and MacCartney. Do you honestly think those guys were boosom buddies?"
Or Mr Turnipseed...
I was really expecting fireworks here.
"Another man I don't really know. Most of the stuff you are asking me about here is internet stuff. I cant' see or smell my man. I have no feel for their essences or passions. Obvious as hell they have no feel for mine. But he decided for his own reasons and conclusions that the dogs were degrading or losing something he wanted to see preserved, amplified and saved. I think that admirable. He has been at it a long time and is getting to the point where he thinks he is close to his goal. He and I differ on a wide number of things and have particular, peculiar, and very different ways of thinking and studying and applying what we learn. Plus he is focused on breeding. That is so incredibly difficult to do sucessfully. You can'teven attempt it unless you are focused enough to know that what you think is a graet plan is a nightmare in waiting which can destroy years of work. Worse than that, when you do screw up it is the dogs that pay for it, not the breeder. By all accounts of which I am aware, he is damn good at it. He doesnot produce what I am interested in but I and my wants are not and should not be part of that equation. We have some common interests like hunting and you know how absolutely squirelly I am about hunting. And he is a hog dogger and he has it in his primordial dna. He can't not do it. It defines him in a way that people who don't hunt will never understand. As a trainer I think he is probably OK. But he isn't a peer. I don't doubt him capable of discovery and innovation. The other side of that observation is that he may be incapable of pouring tepid water on a hot dog. I don't know. The mans an Airedaler. That means to me he is different, very much so from the typical. In one way I am sure we are very alike. I don't care if some nabob from afar thinks my dog is a star or not. I suspect he feels that way as well. Its the old pedigree, conformation performance thing. Tell me I have an ugly dog and Ill blow it off. Watch my dog work and then tell me you think I ahve an ugly dog. That will amp the issue, you know how I am. Never a dull moment and one of the original unreconstituted ass holes in family history. I will pass on certain things and let slide a lot more. Some things you just don't do to me. I won't abide it. Turnipseed has done some of those things. He insulted me and attempted to publicly degrade me. He pissed me off. But I have pissed him off as well. and probably in very similar fashion. So here we are in the seventh inning stretch and the issue is yet to be determined. And also bear in mind that we are both focused on different niches. What he does is undeniably difficult. I have tried and found I was not good at it. It is beyond me. I do a different thing in a different way. The commonality is Airedale Terriers. And in that the paradigm is vastly different. I just think that Mr Turnipseed and the dogs would all be better served if the cheap shots and the insults went away. It is counter productive
and obviously self serving. It is also bad on the dogs. I don't like it, even a little bit. The best dogs I have aquired over the years we all bred by others. Without exception they came from show stock and out of show kennels. Good dogs are were you find them. To say that it is imposiible to get a quality working Airedale out of a show kennel is just bull nuts. I have proven it to myself too many times to know that thinking is a simple ficiton and not true. Turnipseed thinks differently than I. That in itself does not indicate he is a fool or I am an idiot. We just differ and somewhere along the line we got ugly about it. Both of us own that nonsense. It was stupid and in retrospect childishly foolish. He maintains that slicks, show dogs, red lines, anything other than what he is focused on, is less than quality. I disagree with that. He let the mad cow from arizona on his discussion board and for a long time allowd that unit, I will NOT call that unit a lady,
to a purpose I can't comprehend. You know me Jax. Do the wrong thing to me and I will move the stars and bars and bury you. That was why I wrote the articles and researched that unit. My intention and goal was to bury that unit. I think I accomplished the object of that exercise. But back to it. Turnipseed is an Airedaler. I know many of them. I respect quite a number of them. Guys like Henry Johnson and Lawrence Alexander I consider personal friends. Guys like EF Gordon is a very dear and close personal friend. Other people's opinions of them are not in my data base. Mind over matter. I feel privileged to know those men. I hardley ever agree with anything we discuss or argue. But each of those men have been in this community for years longer than I. Their origions are different in space and time. What they each do is important to them as men. My opinions of that are hardley of any consequence and should'nt be. Now lets get off this personality trolley and talk about the dogs."
I recorded all this on a digital recorder. I did ask Michael if he cared if I posted it. "It makes little difference Cuz. I am in my end game. It is higly unlikely that I am going to be entering any popularity contests and even less likely Ill win one. I am chapped about some of the things which have happened and I have embarressed myself on occassion with my poor manors and abyssmal temper. I am an Airedaler. I know people all over the world. They know me. We communicate and teach and mentor and encourage each other. We respect each other. We treat each others as peers. Not safe and no pass but very heady in my mind. I like it, it is me. All this other nuts you think important does not even occur to me. These other guys you wanted to talk about are Airedalers. There is something of the wild card to every Airedaler I have ever known or met. I think they are all good men
and are very focused on their passions. Driven in a way that is vastly higher than a hobbiest plane. That is a great thing for the dogs. Few other breeds enjoy that distinction. Often over the top, often agressive, often entertaining and often aggravating.
But never dull, never dull. That makes my world spin, I need it and have to have it in my life. The vast majority of those in this little community don't have a clue. It is about style, winning a big show and love. They aren't even on the same ladder or in que to climb it with the people you wanted to talk about. Most haven't figured it out and never will. Human ego destroys the good in a dog and a lot of this is about just that and only that. I want my K9 to take to the hunt like a fine hog dog. Learn how to fight a larger stronger more intelligent super predatore and win the fight. If another wants his to jump hurdles on command or kiss the damn cat it's OK by me. I have my ego in the right place. I am aware of that. More importantly, the dog is aware of it. It makes for a very satisfying relationship for us both."
Jax
Cuz and crew left yesterday and Michael says Odette is finished and ready to do her job. As you may recall, the wife engineered this aquisition of a Jagd puppy bitch and Cuz has supervised the training. Lots of people have punched in on this but Michael has been the overseer evaluator and hands on man from day 1. A very enlightening experience.
Odette has for several weeks now spent her nights out side "on patrol" as Cuz calls it. She likes the work and understands that this is her job, keep the pigs out of Jo Anna's gardens. It was, at first, hard on my girls but they now understand it and like the idea.
After her initial introduction to the ranch and boot camp, Odette got it together and began to gel. Cuz started with the simple basics. Basic obedience and predatory stimulation started and were complete to Cuz' satisfaction in less than 2 weeks. Sit, recall, down, stand, stay and heel ..all introduced, understood and complied with by a pup less than 2 months of age. The predatory stimulus was even more impressive.
Cuz used goats, fawns, calves a house cat and a couple other critters as shills to teach Odette that these kinds of critters were ok to investigate but never to abuse. She was having a struggle until Hutto brought in a dozen piglets and Odette had her world ROCKED. Cuz only comment was, "I like this pup, she has a lot of sand"
Michael took one of the the piglets whacked it on the shoulder and tossed it into a makeshift pin. JoAnna held Odette and Cuz climbed into the pin. He fell over and began squealing and crawling and whinening and caterwalling until Odette was about crazy and had JoAnna let her slip. Odette charged the piglet and engaged like a runaway nike missle. It was amazing to see and impressive that a puppy of about 9-10 weeks possesed this much power and strength and drive. He did it twice more with fresh piglets and called it a day.
The next day was essentially a repeat with some minor modifications. First was the piglet as described. Then he did the same thing with the cat, except he did not do any noise. Just lay down and wiggled and crawled. Odette reacted like she did with the pig let. Made the mistake Cuz was waiting on. He popped her once on the flank with my quirt gave her a LOUD "ANNNNH" and pulled her away. He repeated this twice. Let her have a piglet and then the cat and called it a day.
This format was repeated with the other shills. Two weeks later Odetee would get in a pin with any of these shills and sniff em but not molest them. Now she acts like their presence is part of her world and acceptable.
Night patrol started on the next visit. Her first few nights outdoor were as one would expect. Lots of noise and hard on the daughters. We all got very little sleep and Odette was confused about being abandoned. Cuz remedied that on the next visit in two nights. He and Hutto brought wild, stinky boar/sow scent a bunch of orange rags and set the training.
This was too pretty simple. First night there he didn't even train.
He just walked and talked with Odette while he walked the perimeter. Then he and Hutto would switch and Hutto did the walking and talking. Next night it began with stinky boar/sow scent on orange rags around and outside the fence. These were hung in shrubs trees and semi buried in the ground. When she'd tell him she was in the cone, he'd give he a quick "Ata Girl" and as if by magic a piglet would appear. She would have her fight and it was over. The he began adding the shills again and by weeks end Odette was engaging piglets in the gardens with 5 different species of shills in it while she hunted and engaged the piglets. Not once did Odette go after a shill. She did knock a couple down because they were in the way but she never engaged one. He began introducing the obedience into all this as well. It was very impressive to see the little dog complie with the
training directives knowing her target was right there in front of her. If she did what he imposed, Cuz let her fight and wool the piglets to her hearts content. If she didn't, she was leashed and had to watch as Cuz or one of the other guys fought her pig. Odette hated this and squalled like she was being iviscerated. But next time around she did what Cuz ordered when he ordered her to do it and waited to self reward with a piglet fight.
The other interesting aspect of this was training Odete to pick her "hides" as Cuz calls em. In this part of Texas, the prevailing wind is usually out of the SE. The weather, temperature and season all have an impact on wind direction. What this means, according to Cuz is that Tuesday night air flow may be ideal for Odette to lie in wait at the Madron tree on the NW corner of the garden but then Wed night new weather has rolled in and she won't have the range or constancy of wind to let her smell what is or isn't out there. Cuzs remedy was to have us get 6 of the insulted bee hive shaped dog boxes to set up around the gardens perimeters. They all are somewhat elevated but they all sit on the ground. He got the girls involved by sleeping on old towels and such and putting them in the boxes. Fresh ones evreyday . He explained to the girls that Odette was like a sister who took comfort in smelling their scents and "sleeping" with her sisters. I spent almost $300 on the boxes and groused about Michael spending my $$$$. It was and is worth every penny. On any given night, you can walk out in the gardens and Odette will come in from the hide SHE chose and check in. It amazes me that I can only guess about where she is until she approaches. Usually I am wrong about where I think she'll come in. It does not take long and she always comes in. No command, no recall no noise. She is on the clock and if I am in her space she comes in to check out what I am doing on her ground.
The next month or so will be fairly ineffective for Odette. She is dropping her milk teeth and her permanents are maybe a month or a little longer away. Cuz says this is her weakest point in life at this job. Power training and desire won't help her much if a big hog invades and she engages it. If she can't bite in the fight she could get killed. Josh and I decided that we would sleep on the proches every night until Odettes new teeth showed up. Like most things on the ranch, it does not really matter what I or Josh or any of the other men think or decide. The girls usually trump the decision and we get new directives we hadn't thought of. So now my entire family is camping on the porches every night. The girls all now how to shoot and even JoJo has her 410 at the ready.
It may make some parents uncomfortable to think about a situation like this and responding to it like this. It is the way we live. I have good solid children. They know what guns are for and they know how to use them. They are very safety conscious due to spending time with Cuz and I. They are also absolutely reliable
with them. The girls in particular love their roles as protectors of Odette and I can assure you that should Odette alert to a big sounder one of my little girls is gonna introduce a pig to the Grim Man.
While all this has been going on, Michael and the other dog men
and I have had numerous conversations, various things I have read by all you here, I have asked about and listened to their perspectives and compared them with yours. It is an education I feel very privilidged to be getting. I thank you all.
Some of Cuz commentary is going to surprise a few of you. As David Allan Cole said on the song, "I feel obligated to include it on this song..." so here it goes.
Cuz feels like every mans life has 3 basic compartments. Focus balance and passion. Each is as important as the other. It is how a man lives with it and defines it that makes him individually independent and unique. When he explained this from his perspective in the beginning I didn't catch it but I do now.
The passion that fuels Michael is training Airedales. He knows them and understands them. He studies constantly what others are doing and why they do what they do. Always questioning. How can this be? Can I effectively apply this? This sounds like horse nuts to me, does it work? The balance he pays attention to keeps him fresh and energized and prevents burn out. He thinks nothing unusal about going to the range and burning several hundred rounds without a dog in sight. Then he goes back to the passion and the dogs. Focus is what we make it, obviously. I am not talking about paying attention. I am talking about a broader higher attentiveness. When I watch him train, I am always aware of how quiet he is. He will spend 10, 20, 30 minutes with a training exercise and one dog and never say a word. If I try to ask a question or make a comment he likely doesn't even hear it. He never answers it. On the other side of this is that it is obvious that between he and the dog a hell of a lot is being exchanged and understood.
I asked him about the evaluating litters thread and some of the commentary in. His response surprised me. All that started in Switzerland in the mid 1920s, which I didn't know. It came into main line dog training in a book by (sp ? ) Faffenbarger in the mid 1960s. Popular for years and made a must do by writer trainers like Richard Wolters. Bottomline? Canines are by and large to maliable at such young ages to make prognostications about their futures as hunters or workers or companions. Then he gave me the science from the Sweedish Working Dog Center investigating the data from over 50 years of breeding working dogs, the puppy tests and evaluations and the dogs effectiveness as working dogs. Hundreds of dogs were part of this study and all bred to work. The conclusion was that the Swedes could not coraborate a coralation between a puppy test, litter evaluation and the predictability of success of a given study subject as an adult working dog. He has an extremely poor opinion about the Volhards and their, "Bull nuts". He knows they copyrighted the puppy test stuff after the Fuller & Scott study and after the copyrighted Faffenberger book experied. He thinks it intellectually dishonest and a $$$$ chase.
This vein is as well consistent with the super puppy stuff currently being pushed by Dr (sp?) Battaglia. What we now call Super Dog started half way around the world during the cold war in Russia by the same scientists that developed the Black Russian Terrier. Thru scientific contacts the info they were claiming as valid made it over here and got the attention of the DoD who jumped on. The American version was essentially a test to determine if their was anything to the Russian cliams. The dogs and the program was never called Super Dog when it was up and running. The canines were refered to as Bio Sensers. This study began and ended in Maryland. It began in the mid 60s and was closed in 1974. The famous Dr Michael Foxx was integral to this study but perhaps a dozen other world class Americans were as well. CBS news got the Bio Sensor dog program closed on a news show depicting how the American military establishment was pissing away tax $$$$ by putting puppies into small machines like centrofuges and spinning for a few seconds to see if that had any effect, measurable, on health intellingence etc. It did and it does have a beneficial effect on a puppy. Cuz will tell you at the git go, "I am not a scientist. I think that the litters I raised all benefited from the experense. I just can't honestly tell you how much or to what extent as a positive deferences made to an individual or litter because I had nothing to compare it too." He has talked extensevly with 1960-70 era working dog handlers who used Bio Sensor dogs in the field. Everyone said that the dogs were superior in many ways. That was their conviction from personal observations based on real work and real situations. Cuz believes in it but ads a caveat....avoid Battaglia unless you like the idea of making his cash redgister ring. Look for the book by Fogle, a Canadian vet who has several out, and follow what he describes. It is the most accurate stuff in print on the topic.
An Airedaler named Burmaster has a book out about this same thing. Cuz met the Lady and talked with her. He thinks she is a hoot. She is a clicker trainer and very well regarded. Her program is very time intensive and the feedback from people who have used it is all good. Cuz hasn't read her book or her program. His comments were all based on her conversation with him at a HWA thing they attended in Ohio a few years ago. Cuz said, "I think differently about the breed and its prospects than Corally does.
She is a very smart lady and very likeable. Her "noggin" work is different than mine and she feels satisfied and comfortable with where she gets and how she gets there. Plus she is into clicker which I feel is way below my paygrade as a trainer. She uses clicker the way I use other things and gets the same or very similar results. Plus I can never keep track of the damn things and am not much of a gadget guy. It is an implement I do not personally use and wont personally use. I have used them to help the guys who have timing issues and they have made good success with it. But there are no clickers in my tool box." As to her program he said it like this, " Jax you want to haul Odette to the park and play, do it. You want to build a puppy play ground in the garden, do it. You want to have the gardens eaten again because your pet doesn't have a clue, do it. I got you from Tim a fine prospect for the work you want done by one dog over its lifetime. I don't have time for games and bull nuts. Your move."
So we didn't use the ladies ideas or thoughts in any way I am aware of. I do have a puppy Jagd that lives at nights in the gardens and hunts pigs. It is what we wanted.
Some of you other guys....
Mr Delbridge is one. You and Cuz don't get along at all. I find that curious. I asked him specificly about you. Michael said this, "I wouldn't know the man if I bumped into him at the mall. Probably he is smart focused and passionate. He does a niche that is way above my paygrade. He may be light years above (sp?) Serotuck or he may be a goober. I don't know and can't honestly say. My personal and fervant hope is that because he is an Airedaler he is damn good at what he does and what he does with his working dogs is at least as good as anyone anywhere else on the planet. When you are on that plane it is a whole different ball game. You are a peer. That is not a pass. It is the hardest test of all because it is constant. f**k up on the essentials and you are kicked to the curb. For all I know Beldridge can be the guy who finds Jimmy Hoffa. Hope he has an Airedale on that job." And further, "He just decided to nettle me over some thing of no consequence I can't even recall. And he insulted me and pissed me off. But that has little to do with the essentials. It is like Watson and Krick, Holmes and Watson, Lenon and MacCartney. Do you honestly think those guys were boosom buddies?"
Or Mr Turnipseed...
I was really expecting fireworks here.
"Another man I don't really know. Most of the stuff you are asking me about here is internet stuff. I cant' see or smell my man. I have no feel for their essences or passions. Obvious as hell they have no feel for mine. But he decided for his own reasons and conclusions that the dogs were degrading or losing something he wanted to see preserved, amplified and saved. I think that admirable. He has been at it a long time and is getting to the point where he thinks he is close to his goal. He and I differ on a wide number of things and have particular, peculiar, and very different ways of thinking and studying and applying what we learn. Plus he is focused on breeding. That is so incredibly difficult to do sucessfully. You can'teven attempt it unless you are focused enough to know that what you think is a graet plan is a nightmare in waiting which can destroy years of work. Worse than that, when you do screw up it is the dogs that pay for it, not the breeder. By all accounts of which I am aware, he is damn good at it. He doesnot produce what I am interested in but I and my wants are not and should not be part of that equation. We have some common interests like hunting and you know how absolutely squirelly I am about hunting. And he is a hog dogger and he has it in his primordial dna. He can't not do it. It defines him in a way that people who don't hunt will never understand. As a trainer I think he is probably OK. But he isn't a peer. I don't doubt him capable of discovery and innovation. The other side of that observation is that he may be incapable of pouring tepid water on a hot dog. I don't know. The mans an Airedaler. That means to me he is different, very much so from the typical. In one way I am sure we are very alike. I don't care if some nabob from afar thinks my dog is a star or not. I suspect he feels that way as well. Its the old pedigree, conformation performance thing. Tell me I have an ugly dog and Ill blow it off. Watch my dog work and then tell me you think I ahve an ugly dog. That will amp the issue, you know how I am. Never a dull moment and one of the original unreconstituted ass holes in family history. I will pass on certain things and let slide a lot more. Some things you just don't do to me. I won't abide it. Turnipseed has done some of those things. He insulted me and attempted to publicly degrade me. He pissed me off. But I have pissed him off as well. and probably in very similar fashion. So here we are in the seventh inning stretch and the issue is yet to be determined. And also bear in mind that we are both focused on different niches. What he does is undeniably difficult. I have tried and found I was not good at it. It is beyond me. I do a different thing in a different way. The commonality is Airedale Terriers. And in that the paradigm is vastly different. I just think that Mr Turnipseed and the dogs would all be better served if the cheap shots and the insults went away. It is counter productive
and obviously self serving. It is also bad on the dogs. I don't like it, even a little bit. The best dogs I have aquired over the years we all bred by others. Without exception they came from show stock and out of show kennels. Good dogs are were you find them. To say that it is imposiible to get a quality working Airedale out of a show kennel is just bull nuts. I have proven it to myself too many times to know that thinking is a simple ficiton and not true. Turnipseed thinks differently than I. That in itself does not indicate he is a fool or I am an idiot. We just differ and somewhere along the line we got ugly about it. Both of us own that nonsense. It was stupid and in retrospect childishly foolish. He maintains that slicks, show dogs, red lines, anything other than what he is focused on, is less than quality. I disagree with that. He let the mad cow from arizona on his discussion board and for a long time allowd that unit, I will NOT call that unit a lady,
to a purpose I can't comprehend. You know me Jax. Do the wrong thing to me and I will move the stars and bars and bury you. That was why I wrote the articles and researched that unit. My intention and goal was to bury that unit. I think I accomplished the object of that exercise. But back to it. Turnipseed is an Airedaler. I know many of them. I respect quite a number of them. Guys like Henry Johnson and Lawrence Alexander I consider personal friends. Guys like EF Gordon is a very dear and close personal friend. Other people's opinions of them are not in my data base. Mind over matter. I feel privileged to know those men. I hardley ever agree with anything we discuss or argue. But each of those men have been in this community for years longer than I. Their origions are different in space and time. What they each do is important to them as men. My opinions of that are hardley of any consequence and should'nt be. Now lets get off this personality trolley and talk about the dogs."
I recorded all this on a digital recorder. I did ask Michael if he cared if I posted it. "It makes little difference Cuz. I am in my end game. It is higly unlikely that I am going to be entering any popularity contests and even less likely Ill win one. I am chapped about some of the things which have happened and I have embarressed myself on occassion with my poor manors and abyssmal temper. I am an Airedaler. I know people all over the world. They know me. We communicate and teach and mentor and encourage each other. We respect each other. We treat each others as peers. Not safe and no pass but very heady in my mind. I like it, it is me. All this other nuts you think important does not even occur to me. These other guys you wanted to talk about are Airedalers. There is something of the wild card to every Airedaler I have ever known or met. I think they are all good men
and are very focused on their passions. Driven in a way that is vastly higher than a hobbiest plane. That is a great thing for the dogs. Few other breeds enjoy that distinction. Often over the top, often agressive, often entertaining and often aggravating.
But never dull, never dull. That makes my world spin, I need it and have to have it in my life. The vast majority of those in this little community don't have a clue. It is about style, winning a big show and love. They aren't even on the same ladder or in que to climb it with the people you wanted to talk about. Most haven't figured it out and never will. Human ego destroys the good in a dog and a lot of this is about just that and only that. I want my K9 to take to the hunt like a fine hog dog. Learn how to fight a larger stronger more intelligent super predatore and win the fight. If another wants his to jump hurdles on command or kiss the damn cat it's OK by me. I have my ego in the right place. I am aware of that. More importantly, the dog is aware of it. It makes for a very satisfying relationship for us both."
Jax