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Post by lisarose on Aug 20, 2011 13:57:02 GMT -5
Howdy:
I am the proud owner of a High Country Airedale pup- from a March litter- She's from a repeat breeding of Black Jack- We live in Oakland- and the Bay Area trainers I've contacted are very interested in meeting one of Don's dogs- Who knows what he said but he's made a name for himself on working dog websites... So it's important we do well! I'm interested in obedience- possibly ring sport- but I'm having trouble really motivating her- If I keep her hungry she will respond- but quickly her mind wanders- and my big trouble is that fetch and tug are not a favorite games- Anyone out there with insight about channeling varmint drive into focused work? I'll put up some pictures- she's a big leggy girl- She has been pretty clumsy- those long legs get tangled- but she's starting to really move-
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Post by rickyjames on Aug 20, 2011 20:58:44 GMT -5
5 to 6 months is early for any dog to be tested on protection sports and get a real sense of potential in dog sports, there is simply too much going on in their development.
while they say a dog works in prey drive for tug and sleeve work it is really more like play drive. most people like to work their dog before they feed them, mostly because they get lazy after they are fed, not because it brings up their drives. also treats can be used more effectivly as incentives.
most successful dogs in the protection sports have high prey drives. you can use other drives such as defense but it is very easy to ruin a dog if you start them too early, before they have gone thru their "fear" periods.
how big is your girl?
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Post by lisarose on Aug 21, 2011 11:25:34 GMT -5
Thanks so much- She's 45 pounds and five months old- She just lost her last canine yesterday- playing tug with my pants. Your comment about fear is interesting- she's started tucking her tail when she meets dogs- this is new- Don's dogs are socialized with dogs- and she's been to lots of puppy play classes- also just started barking in the yard- She's all of a sudden is more cautious.
My question is: how to get her tugging and chasing thrown objects? She will chase a ball- but lots of times drops it- So far I am being really light on any obedience- lots of playful recalls on a long line- and sits. I've been watching Michael Ellis's videos- seem really smart- probably wrong to compare an Airedale to one of his Mal pups. Thanks and I'll keep you posted- Michael's partner is starting a tracking course next month- which I'm thinking of taking her too- All new to me and it will be fun to explore with her-
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Post by rickyjames on Aug 21, 2011 12:48:22 GMT -5
look up k-9 "fear periods" on the net. they happen to all dogs and it gives you general info on when to expect them although not all breeds are on the same schedule. they come and they go, the important thing is not to make a big deal out of them or it can shape the dog to be more fearful.
as for chasing a ball and retrieving it, i'm having the same problem. Bo brings the ball and then plays keep away. try a long check rope and a treat. this is one of those times when not feeding the dog before hand becomes an advantage. have the pup bring you the ball and exchange it for a treat, she will soon get the idea. maybe some bird dog trainers will have some input also.
as for tug toys and sleeve work i have never had a dog that wasn't interested so i'm not sure what to say. maybe try a flirt pole, something that more closely resembles chasing a varmint. you have to tap into one of her drives. if it's not the prey (play) drive then i think you might have to tap into her defense or fight drive. make her feel like it is fighting back, present a challange to her, make it harder but always let her win.
a tracking class can be fun and interesting for you and the pup. whatever you do with your pup will be fun for both of you, produce a better dog and a closer relationship between you. have fun and good luck.
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Post by thistlesdale on Aug 21, 2011 16:32:37 GMT -5
Anyone out there with insight about channeling varmint drive into focused work? the american hunting type is all about prey drive, so that's your foundation also, keep the faith coated breeds are very slow to mature |
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Post by rickyjames on Aug 21, 2011 17:18:42 GMT -5
"coated breeds are very slow to mature"
what is meant by "coated breeds" ?
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Post by thistlesdale on Aug 21, 2011 18:23:01 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzo7vvk6dFk coated breeds = fuzzy dogs you'll title 2-3 smooth coated "shepherd's dog" breeds in the time it takes to title one fuzzy hence the fact so few get titled
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Post by rickyjames on Aug 21, 2011 20:33:50 GMT -5
 .... fuzzy dogs? those fuzzy dogs seemed to do just fine. does a wire haired fox terrier mature more slowly than a smooth coated fox terrier? does a wire haired german pointer mature more slowly than a smooth coated one? there might be some truth that a smaller dog might mature more quickly than a larger dog physically because they have less growing to do, but not mentally. some breeds might mature mentally more quickly than others but i don't think that is based on the length or hardness of their coat. terriers as a group are different from other breeds or i guess they wouldn't be grouped together as terriers. terriers as a group are noted to be clowns even to their dieing day. i don't confuse being clownish with immaturity or the ability to be deadly serious in a heartbeat, young or old. terriers learn fast and get bored easily, they just don't like or feel the need for endless repetition but if the need arises i believe they would be as up to the task as any other breed. i think one of the airedales strongest attributes as a protection breed is its ability to determine a real threat from a game. i think that comes from countless genertions of hunting and varminting. an airedale might toss a field mouse around like a toy but is not careless around something more dangerous. terriers generally are not mindless autobots. trainers of the common protection breeds don't understand this. i guess that is why they choose the breeds they do and that is why you see those breeds being featured in the protection sports. i don't see those breeds as better or smater or more protective or more mature. i see them as being more of a straight line which is just the shortest distance between two points. |
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Post by thistlesdale on Aug 22, 2011 8:01:02 GMT -5
 agreed the fuzzy herding breeds are slow to mature as well that's a good thing because the coated breeds are also very independent, so you need the extra time to establish rock solid obedience the main thing IMO, if it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong |
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Post by theresa on Aug 22, 2011 11:08:53 GMT -5
"My question is: how to get her tugging and chasing thrown objects? "
I'd start with a lure on a flirt pole or line.
Get an object of attraction - a stuffed toy - and attach to a 10-12 foot rope or cord. You want the cord to be heavy enough so that it won't cut your pup's mouth if she bites it. Drag the toy in front of her to peak her interest. When she goes for it tug it out of reach, whirl it in the air - whatever is fun. You can incorporate the 'out' command with this exercise and tire your pup out nicely as well. TD has a ton of pix of playing with his pups with the flirt.
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Post by thistlesdale on Aug 22, 2011 15:53:59 GMT -5
terriers generally are not mindless autobots. trainers of the common protection breeds don't understand this. i guess that is why they choose the breeds they do and that is why you see those breeds being featured in the protection sports. i don't see those breeds as better or smater or more protective or more mature. i see them as being more of a straight line which is just the shortest distance between two points. I don't think we can deny that over the past hundred or so generations of protection sport breeding, the "shepherd's dog" breeds have evolved into highly specialized strains the same may just as easily be said of border collie, lab, pointer, etc the hunt type airedale may be trained in any of the above venues, but he hasn't been selectively bred for it he has been selectively bred for prey drive, so that is the best foundation for all training IMO the reizangel/flirt pole is like magic in that respect  female pup in flight |
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Post by rickyjames on Aug 22, 2011 18:06:15 GMT -5
the evolution of k-9 protection sports has evolved greatly over just my lifetime. when i was a kid i had a GSD pup bred from the rin tin tin line and a german female. the female was "protection trained" and pretty impressive. when i was a kid i lived next door to a german import protection trained dobbie that scared the hell out of everyone in the neighborhood. i have known protection trained rotties that were awsome. these breeds were the biggest and baddest breeds on the planet at that time. they have generally fallen off the map in protection sports these days. what is the flavor of the month these days are mals and dutch shepherds which are generally mixed with pits and used mostly because they are natural born biters with bad tempers.
the reason i bring this up is it is the evolution of protection dogs. now you have to ask yourself why have trainers greatly abandoned GSD's, dobie, rotties and other breeds for "serious" protection? are mals and dutch shepherds really better? what is it they offer that makes them better?
the answer is.......drum roll please.......they aren't better, they aren't more effective, they aren't tougher........they are just easier to train. they are the shortest distance between 2 points. a trainers reputation is only as good as the dogs they produce if a trainer could cross a greyhound with an alligator and win tournaments and trophys and make their jobs easier then that would be the new hot breed.
protection has turned into a sport and has produced sprecialzed breeds to compete just like greyhounds dominate dog racing. many of the "hot" protection dogs i have seen are as dangerous to their handlers as they are to the "bad guy". i don't really call these dogs/breeds better. they are just short cuts to a goal.
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Post by thistlesdale on Aug 22, 2011 18:48:41 GMT -5
 recurve vs compound |
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Post by frida123 on Sept 5, 2018 13:08:45 GMT -5
It is an interesting information!
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Post by frida123 on Sept 5, 2018 13:08:59 GMT -5
Thanks for this!
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.... fuzzy dogs? those fuzzy dogs seemed to do just fine. does a wire haired fox terrier mature more slowly than a smooth coated fox terrier? does a wire haired german pointer mature more slowly than a smooth coated one? 
