Post by oksaradt on Oct 1, 2011 17:02:28 GMT -5
Water work II
I’ve talked about water work before and expressed the opinion that the scent machine is a scent training tool that does more harm than good. Providence gave me today by myself such that I could focus on my dogs alone and I chose to go do shoreline work with Murphy and Thorpe. For Murphy this is just reinforcement. For Thorpe, this is the next step in his training. Thorpe has been introduced only once to water and that was last spring. The summer has been 63 days of 100-plus temperatures. The weather is just now regaining sanity.
So, this is how I migrate from buried to water.
Four problems were set up to migrate. Realize my dogs work bone and teeth first.
Problem one was a fresh bone (intact marrow) in mesh under a large rock placed in 1 foot of water some 12 (or so) feet off-shore. I was wearing mudders, so I could walk out to ~18 inches deep water. Rock was such that just the top showed above the water. I should note that there were multiple rocks sticking up out of the water, so this was not a visual cue.
Problem two was ten intact teeth in an expanded metal cup placed in one foot of water under a concrete block that was on the shore and this was wedged next to a pre-existing rock.
Problem three was a decomp cavity wipe (meaning the cavity wipe came out of a decomposed body) in a suet cage placed under a pre-existing rock in the water with the source at 15 inches down.
Problem four was a PVC deep water container with tissue/adipose tissue/hair in the tube. The hair is human and used to help contain the adipose tissue, i.e. make the source last longer for multiple uses. This source is on a string and sinks when flung out into the water and sank down to about 3 feet deep from observing Murphy.
Sources were spaced 50 to 80 feet apart using shore as a guage.
Water temperature was actually warmer than air as it was shallow water and we just had a cold front move through. Air temp was 60 to 65F. Wind was gentle from dead calm to 6 mph from the east and we were sheltered from the east. When I started there were shallow ripples on the surface of the water moving into shore which made this easier for Murphy. But, but the time Murphy was done, the water was like glass. Thorpe got no help from the wind.
Observations:
Bone and teeth problems were easiest for my dogs. Dogs were basically started along the shore some 100 feet from any source. Both dogs appeared to be walking nonchalantly along the shore and then would veer in toward a source. Once close, both dogs snorkeled (nose goes into water and dogs blow bubbles to take advantage of additional scent organ). Both dogs were able to target sources precisely. The younger dog was verbally praised to turn the natural indication (touch) towards the trained alert.
On the two tissue-related sources, scent behavior was demonstrated from further away. The PVC source actually overlapped the decomp such that Murphy was working towards the decomp then veered deeper out into the water to work the PVC source (this is the only venue where I used a PVC container as I’ve had turtles shred the cricket cages). Murphy moved out to where the PVC source should be (I could follow the golden string somewhat in the water as a pointer) and circled a bit then called it right on line with the string. I rewarded.
I should say that Murphy worked me a bit as well as he worked each source twice to get twice the rewards. I would reward him on one and suggest we move on to find more. He would turn back and relocate each source for a second reward. I can see no harm in self-reinforcement of this style. This did become an issue for Murphy on his second attempt at the deep-water source. The first time he had wind to help him locate the source of the scent oil slick. The second time the water was calm. Also, this brings up why I prefer to work problems like this is a boat as he had spread scent further out via his coat and movements through the oil slick. Murphy chose to do this, so I let him struggle and re-target the source. The first time he found this source took him about five minutes to decide where it was. The second time took nearly ten minutes with him moving further out into the lake beyond the source before turning back. Each time he did this, he spread a bit more scent with him. He stuck with it on his own with me on shore quietly pacing calmly back and forth along the water line. When he decided and barked, I checked the line. He was right, so I rewarded by throwing the ball along the beach.
For Thorpe, his major problem with the deep water was he is still at that age where he wants to either locate the source with his feet or his nose. Imagine a dog tapping on the soft sand under the water. He pushed one rock around for nearly five minutes till I came in, located the rock and pulled it up for his inspection. He sighed and went back to searching on his own.
This is a good time to note a rule I was taught in scent dog training long ago. Any time you make one part of a problem harder, make the rest of it easier. The harder part on this was the medium of water. So, after Thorpe struggled for a while ( I like to see a dog struggle as it demonstrates commitment) I pulled the source closer such that he could see the container some 14 inches down. The water was clear except where Thorpe had been disturbing the sand in his search for the source. At that point he shoved his nose down into the water and blew bubbles. He then touched the source with his paw. I then cued the alert. A light bulb went off and he did so. I then pulled the source out of the water and threw it about ten feet away in similar depth water. Thorpe would splash over there and then use his nose to locate it. At that point he’d touch and I’d cue the alert again. As this was simple training, Thorpe got a treat at each bark rather than a ball. Thorpe and I did this 14 times. We stopped then as I had only one treat left. Thorpe was having a grand time and the need for a cue had diminished. At this point I pulled Thorpe out and had him work the cavity wipe again. He located it again, nose went down, paw went out, then he alerted on his own. I threw the ball and we called it a day.
To summarize, what my dogs found easiest were the foundation materials of bone and teeth. Due to this training and expectation of locating the source, the stronger scent sources proved more daunting as there was more scent to deal with. In such cases, water movement can actually help the dog as it tells the dog where the scent starts, i.e. the oil slick is pushed away from where it breaks surface. With no wind, think oil slick spreading out in every direction.
Murphy had to deal with a scent machine once in his life against my better judgment. His dilemma was he had scent with no source. He had no highest concentration point to target. And, most people that use scent machines choose to use a placenta, so the dog ends up working blood. Thorpe has never had to deal with a scent machine and I plan to keep that way.
Hope this helps. I understand if it creates questions. Bring them on.
Jim
I’ve talked about water work before and expressed the opinion that the scent machine is a scent training tool that does more harm than good. Providence gave me today by myself such that I could focus on my dogs alone and I chose to go do shoreline work with Murphy and Thorpe. For Murphy this is just reinforcement. For Thorpe, this is the next step in his training. Thorpe has been introduced only once to water and that was last spring. The summer has been 63 days of 100-plus temperatures. The weather is just now regaining sanity.
So, this is how I migrate from buried to water.
Four problems were set up to migrate. Realize my dogs work bone and teeth first.
Problem one was a fresh bone (intact marrow) in mesh under a large rock placed in 1 foot of water some 12 (or so) feet off-shore. I was wearing mudders, so I could walk out to ~18 inches deep water. Rock was such that just the top showed above the water. I should note that there were multiple rocks sticking up out of the water, so this was not a visual cue.
Problem two was ten intact teeth in an expanded metal cup placed in one foot of water under a concrete block that was on the shore and this was wedged next to a pre-existing rock.
Problem three was a decomp cavity wipe (meaning the cavity wipe came out of a decomposed body) in a suet cage placed under a pre-existing rock in the water with the source at 15 inches down.
Problem four was a PVC deep water container with tissue/adipose tissue/hair in the tube. The hair is human and used to help contain the adipose tissue, i.e. make the source last longer for multiple uses. This source is on a string and sinks when flung out into the water and sank down to about 3 feet deep from observing Murphy.
Sources were spaced 50 to 80 feet apart using shore as a guage.
Water temperature was actually warmer than air as it was shallow water and we just had a cold front move through. Air temp was 60 to 65F. Wind was gentle from dead calm to 6 mph from the east and we were sheltered from the east. When I started there were shallow ripples on the surface of the water moving into shore which made this easier for Murphy. But, but the time Murphy was done, the water was like glass. Thorpe got no help from the wind.
Observations:
Bone and teeth problems were easiest for my dogs. Dogs were basically started along the shore some 100 feet from any source. Both dogs appeared to be walking nonchalantly along the shore and then would veer in toward a source. Once close, both dogs snorkeled (nose goes into water and dogs blow bubbles to take advantage of additional scent organ). Both dogs were able to target sources precisely. The younger dog was verbally praised to turn the natural indication (touch) towards the trained alert.
On the two tissue-related sources, scent behavior was demonstrated from further away. The PVC source actually overlapped the decomp such that Murphy was working towards the decomp then veered deeper out into the water to work the PVC source (this is the only venue where I used a PVC container as I’ve had turtles shred the cricket cages). Murphy moved out to where the PVC source should be (I could follow the golden string somewhat in the water as a pointer) and circled a bit then called it right on line with the string. I rewarded.
I should say that Murphy worked me a bit as well as he worked each source twice to get twice the rewards. I would reward him on one and suggest we move on to find more. He would turn back and relocate each source for a second reward. I can see no harm in self-reinforcement of this style. This did become an issue for Murphy on his second attempt at the deep-water source. The first time he had wind to help him locate the source of the scent oil slick. The second time the water was calm. Also, this brings up why I prefer to work problems like this is a boat as he had spread scent further out via his coat and movements through the oil slick. Murphy chose to do this, so I let him struggle and re-target the source. The first time he found this source took him about five minutes to decide where it was. The second time took nearly ten minutes with him moving further out into the lake beyond the source before turning back. Each time he did this, he spread a bit more scent with him. He stuck with it on his own with me on shore quietly pacing calmly back and forth along the water line. When he decided and barked, I checked the line. He was right, so I rewarded by throwing the ball along the beach.
For Thorpe, his major problem with the deep water was he is still at that age where he wants to either locate the source with his feet or his nose. Imagine a dog tapping on the soft sand under the water. He pushed one rock around for nearly five minutes till I came in, located the rock and pulled it up for his inspection. He sighed and went back to searching on his own.
This is a good time to note a rule I was taught in scent dog training long ago. Any time you make one part of a problem harder, make the rest of it easier. The harder part on this was the medium of water. So, after Thorpe struggled for a while ( I like to see a dog struggle as it demonstrates commitment) I pulled the source closer such that he could see the container some 14 inches down. The water was clear except where Thorpe had been disturbing the sand in his search for the source. At that point he shoved his nose down into the water and blew bubbles. He then touched the source with his paw. I then cued the alert. A light bulb went off and he did so. I then pulled the source out of the water and threw it about ten feet away in similar depth water. Thorpe would splash over there and then use his nose to locate it. At that point he’d touch and I’d cue the alert again. As this was simple training, Thorpe got a treat at each bark rather than a ball. Thorpe and I did this 14 times. We stopped then as I had only one treat left. Thorpe was having a grand time and the need for a cue had diminished. At this point I pulled Thorpe out and had him work the cavity wipe again. He located it again, nose went down, paw went out, then he alerted on his own. I threw the ball and we called it a day.
To summarize, what my dogs found easiest were the foundation materials of bone and teeth. Due to this training and expectation of locating the source, the stronger scent sources proved more daunting as there was more scent to deal with. In such cases, water movement can actually help the dog as it tells the dog where the scent starts, i.e. the oil slick is pushed away from where it breaks surface. With no wind, think oil slick spreading out in every direction.
Murphy had to deal with a scent machine once in his life against my better judgment. His dilemma was he had scent with no source. He had no highest concentration point to target. And, most people that use scent machines choose to use a placenta, so the dog ends up working blood. Thorpe has never had to deal with a scent machine and I plan to keep that way.
Hope this helps. I understand if it creates questions. Bring them on.
Jim