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Post by jespinoza on Dec 20, 2009 14:14:36 GMT -5
read the FAQ - will wisdom panel insights mixed-breed analysis test for purebred dogs? and why can't this test detect purebreds? on the mars lab website. odd. i'm assuming this is the testing done on the black airedales? By reading on the Mars sight, I am assuming that the laboratory has a bank of purebred DNA mappings on hand to compare to. I am also assuming that this DNA was compared to the known purebred airedale DNA that the company has. And yes It was Black airedales that were tested. John
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 14:54:56 GMT -5
Well, let me say this about that, all of it. The test was done correctly, peorid. Jess is too ill to do anything, but he got all his females from me, which Hawk was the sire. I will post it, but it will either be later today, or early tomorrow. All I will tell you that there is no Labador anywhere in site. No Thelma, we don't breed frogs. DNA does not lie. I have not lied, and thats about anything.
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Post by monterradales on Dec 20, 2009 15:14:07 GMT -5
sorry, folks if you re-read this thread, you'll find that I opposed DNA analyses every step of the way. My reason for doing so is that I believe a dog should be judged according to performance. only showfolk should concern themselves w/ "breed purity" IMO nevertheless, Mars is a $30 BILLION global corporation those of you who chose to put your faith in DNA analyses have no choice now but to live with the results the very notion of anyone here even attempting to dispute Mars Laboratories analyses is laughable Southern's solid black airedales are purebred airedales -case closed- I don't think that disputing the labs results is what is going on here, recognizing the limitations of what they are able to do is the deal. I fail to see how being a $30 billion global corporation has anything to do with it. Did you know Mars various dog food brands were recalled because of salmonella contamination (I'm not saying that in itself is such a big deal, but being BIG doesn't make a company infallible).
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jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Dec 20, 2009 15:38:38 GMT -5
sorry, folks if you re-read this thread, you'll find that I opposed DNA analyses every step of the way. My reason for doing so is that I believe a dog should be judged according to performance. only showfolk should concern themselves w/ "breed purity" IMO nevertheless, Mars is a $30 BILLION global corporation those of you who chose to put your faith in DNA analyses have no choice now but to live with the results the very notion of anyone here even attempting to dispute Mars Laboratories analyses is laughable Southern's solid black airedales are purebred airedales -case closed- I don't think that disputing the labs results is what is going on here, recognizing the limitations of what they are able to do is the deal. I fail to see how being a $30 billion global corporation has anything to do with it. Did you know Mars various dog food brands were recalled because of salmonella contamination (I'm not saying that in itself is such a big deal, but being BIG doesn't make a company infallible). Precisely Judy, it is what they are capable of doing which is the point. From their website Mars says that they use over 300 markers to determine breed purity. The genome sequence of the Airedale Terrier has over 4,000 markers. The sample of the animal sent Mars was compared against, roughly, 7.5% of the known genetic material in the Airedale Terrier genome. Proof? Check this out www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a4CDvK868w
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Post by hicntry on Dec 20, 2009 15:42:45 GMT -5
The handwriting was on the wall long ago....infallable meaning results other than what some want to hear?
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 15:52:28 GMT -5
i am just jumping in here a little late, but i do agree about the dna evidence. if the test was done in 1990, then there are serious limitations to what it can tell.
also, do any of you guys breed regular Airedales? have you ever had a solid black or red Airedale come out of a liter?
i too find the sudden emergence of black and red "rare" airdeales suspect? is there any history of these colors or is the historical record in line with what the article claims? i didn't take the time to read 50+ pages of posts, but did the dna evidence ever get posted? if not, why not???
and finally, are these dogs better than regular airedales.....i was just wondering why they cost more?
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 15:54:48 GMT -5
It was sent in the way we did it, to see if there was anything else, say Lab or Skipperky or Schanuzer, and there wasn't. You can go on with you petty emotions of jealousy, it really does not matter anymore
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 15:56:23 GMT -5
Just remember this, this thread was and is being read world wide. How you conducted your self showed the world what type of person you are. Do they have pegs for Asses?
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Post by monterradales on Dec 20, 2009 16:03:24 GMT -5
The handwriting was on the wall long ago....infallable meaning results other than what some want to hear? Infallable meaning that just because they are a $30 billion global corporation does not make them the gods of DNA or dogfood. I want to see results from a source that can provide definitive proof that a dog's DNA is all airedale. The map with the 4,000 or so genome markers that makes up the airedale apparently resides somewhere, but not in the hands of the commercial DNA labs. I don't know if it is possible to access this map or what the cost is. Southern can now say she has DNA proof and probably be more accurate in that statement than 20 years ago. For me, my curiosity still remains as to how many of the rest of the markers would match up.
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 16:04:45 GMT -5
i am just jumping in here a little late, but i do agree about the dna evidence. if the test was done in 1990, then there are serious limitations to what it can tell. also, do any of you guys breed regular Airedales? have you ever had a solid black or red Airedale come out of a liter? i too find the sudden emergence of black and red "rare" airdeales suspect? is there any history of these colors or is the historical record in line with what the article claims? i didn't take the time to read 50+ pages of posts, but did the dna evidence ever get posted? if not, why not??? and finally, are these dogs better than regular airedales.....i was just wondering why they cost more? Since no one else can stand to answer this, I will. The Black & Reds have been around since the beginning of the breed, anything more will be in the book. I was just told yesterday of an AKC litter having a black born into it, gee I wonder how that happened. Are they "better", depends which way you want to look at it. Personally I would say there is no better dog than an ADT, but thats me. The blacks are unique, and its now the reds that are really rare. Do you think a Porshe should be priced as an Escort? They are a one of a kind.......
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 16:08:49 GMT -5
Judy It was sent in the way we did it, to see if there was anything else, say Lab or Skipperky or Schanuzer, and there wasn't.
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 16:25:04 GMT -5
i am just jumping in here a little late, but i do agree about the dna evidence. if the test was done in 1990, then there are serious limitations to what it can tell. also, do any of you guys breed regular Airedales? have you ever had a solid black or red Airedale come out of a liter? i too find the sudden emergence of black and red "rare" airdeales suspect? is there any history of these colors or is the historical record in line with what the article claims? i didn't take the time to read 50+ pages of posts, but did the dna evidence ever get posted? if not, why not??? and finally, are these dogs better than regular airedales.....i was just wondering why they cost more? Since no one else can stand to answer this, I will. The Black & Reds have been around since the beginning of the breed, anything more will be in the book. I was just told yesterday of an AKC litter having a black born into it, gee I wonder how that happened. Are they "better", depends which way you want to look at it. Personally I would say there is no better dog than an ADT, but thats me. The blacks are unique, and its now the reds that are really rare. Do you think a Porshe should be priced as an Escort? They are a one of a kind....... ok, please understand that i mean no disrespect. your livelihood depends on these rare airedales. i'm a suspicious person by nature and that alone makes me wonder about the dogs. i really would have to see the results. hearsay from you about other blacks and reds being born is also difficult for me to trust which is why i want to hear from other breeders. in all of my research on the breed, i have never come across an old pic or reference to an all black or red airedale. " The blacks are unique, and its now the reds that are really rare. Do you think a Porshe should be priced as an Escort? They are a one of a kind" this addresses the heart of the matter. are these dogs unique as you claim, or can you mix a giant schnauzer or black russian with an airedale and get that color to carry on down the line? you make a nice profit selling these exotic airedales when in fact they may not be special at all. a porshe is alot better car than an escort, you said the dogs are equal to regular airedlaes. would you pay more for the escort if someone put a porshe medallion on it? ?? the 1990's dna evidence is bunk, there is no way they could know that type of information at that time. the video someone just posted showed how unreliable 'send in' dna testing can be. i hope you had more credible work done, afterall, this is your livelihood we're talking about. please post the evidence as well as the details explaining how many markers matched up and the process used. i also have a hard time trusting the motives any breeder of any species that deals in exotics. this has nothing to do with you, just prejudices gained from my past experiences. i am not unreasonable though, if you post the dna results and the test is sufficient, then i will believe you. another question i have is if the red or black color is caused by mutation, is there a test that could show evidence of that mutation? would absence of a mutation prove that the dogs were cross bred with a black dog?
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Post by thistlesdale on Dec 20, 2009 16:28:53 GMT -5
I fail to see how being a $30 billion global corporation has anything to do with it. $30 billion is much bigger than the ATCA probably bigger than the AKC? possibly even bigger than the FCI? I don't think that disputing the labs results is what is going on here you only have two choices now 1.) accept the results of MARS Laboratories DNA analyses 2.) dispute the the results of Mars Laboratories analyses BIG doesn't make a company infallible). in terms of hard Science, the results of Mars Laboratories' DNA analyses trumps the AKC, the ATCA, & certainly any speculation by members of this forum in term of breed purity, the AKC's registration process -pales- in comparison to Mars Laboratories' DNA analyses I'm just sayin'
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 16:37:19 GMT -5
I fail to see how being a $30 billion global corporation has anything to do with it. $30 billion is much bigger than the ATCA probably bigger than the AKC? possibly even bigger than the FCI? you only have two choices now 1.) accept the results of MARS Laboratories DNA analyses 2.) dispute the the results of Mars Laboratories analyses results BIG doesn't make a company infallible). in terms of hard Science, the results of Mars Laboratories' DNA analysis trumps the AKC, the ATCA, & certainly any speculation by members of this forum in term of breed purity, the AKC's registration process -pales- in comparison to Mars Laboratories' DNA analyses I'm just sayin' there is option number three: actually see the results of MARS Laboratories DNA analysis.!!!!! and given the evidence of send in dna tests errors, i would be willing to dispute the results of the dna test depending on the type of test.
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 16:38:09 GMT -5
Like I said, I will not be pushed around to post what you can wait for. I am not trying to be a snob or brat about it, I will go at my own pace. End of that discussion. Youre all so damn eager to see if you can pick a dna apart, but I can tell you this, you can't. I have 58 yrs in a kennel, When you can show ME what you know, then you can tell me how, what where and when, until then, wait. Again end of discussion.
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