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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 16:39:27 GMT -5
the 1990's dna evidence is bunk,
No it wasn't. It proved parantage for as good as they could get it 19 yrs ago.
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 16:47:27 GMT -5
Like I said, I will not be pushed around to post what you can wait for. I am not trying to be a snob or brat about it, I will go at my own pace. End of that discussion. Youre all so damn eager to see if you can pick a dna apart, but I can tell you this, you can't. I have 58 yrs in a kennel, When you can show ME what you know, then you can tell me how, what where and when, until then, wait. Again end of discussion. funny, i was going to suggest that until you find the time to post your dna results that you have very little credibility on the issue at all. if it was me, and i finally had "proof" that i was telling the truth all these years i would post it right away. you could be trying to make some people doubt you only to smack them with the results later, but i doubt that. you obviously care about what others think of your dogs, i would bet the majority of your posts dwell on the purity of your 'airedales,' why are you continuing this fight if you don't have to? i'm not sure your kennel experience factors into this. i have zero kennel experience so maybe you can answer me this. would a black russian or schnauzer mix produce a black airedale looking mix? would it be possible to breed the black pups with airedale and only breed the black offspring to produce black pups that were mostly airedales? actually, don't answer those questions.........just post the results and end the argument.
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 16:48:29 GMT -5
the 1990's dna evidence is bunk, No it wasn't. It proved parantage for as good as they could get it 19 yrs ago. which isn't good enough to satisfy anyone today.
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Post by hicntry on Dec 20, 2009 16:55:58 GMT -5
The handwriting was on the wall long ago....infallable meaning results other than what some want to hear? Infallable meaning that just because they are a $30 billion global corporation does not make them the gods of DNA or dogfood. I want to see results from a source that can provide definitive proof that a dog's DNA is all airedale. The map with the 4,000 or so genome markers that makes up the airedale apparently resides somewhere, but not in the hands of the commercial DNA labs. I don't know if it is possible to access this map or what the cost is. Southern can now say she has DNA proof and probably be more accurate in that statement than 20 years ago. For me, my curiosity still remains as to how many of the rest of the markers would match up. Judy, let's call a spade a spade....If the test said the blacks were a mixed breed, you would all think Mars was the best, most preminent DNA lab around and those results could not ever be questioned. Didn't turn out that way though. Now, lets take another look at DNA and how it is done. I have a drawer full of DNA's from the AKC to prove parentage of the male. It shows a mere 10 markers but you can bet your bottom dollar there are hundreds more that were deemed not critical to prove the parentage of a specific male. Did it ever occur to anyone that although there are 4,000 markers, many of them are of no consequence and many of them will be no different than many other breeds when you consider how many were in the foundation stock of each breed.. The 25% unknown quite possibley has to do with the other breeds behind the airedales since I believe only one other showed up that was significant.....and your not going to like that one other one either. In short, it is doubtfull that all 4,000 markers would be significant in saying it was pure or not. 300 of the critical markers may be all that is needed.....otherwise these proof of sire DNA's would also be pages long. .....not just 10 markers.
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 16:57:06 GMT -5
i think the black airedales have some of this mixed in with them: www.secondchancebouvrescue.com/updates2005.htmlnotice the black bodies and red whiskers. they also look alot like an airedale when they are shaved down. there is a Bouvier des Flandrex airedale mix called buddy two halfway down the page that needs to be looked at.
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 16:58:27 GMT -5
Oh and one after thought. There were 2 dna reports done, or has everyone forgotten the good Rev.Scaras dog, Apache Tears. She is the Grand daughter of Hawk. Conan give me a break, how hard did you have to dig that nuts up? DNA don't lie. Do you have one of those?
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Post by monterradales on Dec 20, 2009 18:20:56 GMT -5
Infallable meaning that just because they are a $30 billion global corporation does not make them the gods of DNA or dogfood. I want to see results from a source that can provide definitive proof that a dog's DNA is all airedale. The map with the 4,000 or so genome markers that makes up the airedale apparently resides somewhere, but not in the hands of the commercial DNA labs. I don't know if it is possible to access this map or what the cost is. Southern can now say she has DNA proof and probably be more accurate in that statement than 20 years ago. For me, my curiosity still remains as to how many of the rest of the markers would match up. Judy, let's call a spade a spade....If the test said the blacks were a mixed breed, you would all think Mars was the best, most preminent DNA lab around and those results could not ever be questioned. Didn't turn out that way though. Now, lets take another look at DNA and how it is done. I have a drawer full of DNA's from the AKC to prove parentage of the male. It shows a mere 10 markers but you can bet your bottom dollar there are hundreds more that were deemed not critical to prove the parentage of a specific male. Did it ever occur to anyone that although there are 4,000 markers, many of them are of no consequence and many of them will be no different than many other breeds when you consider how many were in the foundation stock of each breed.. The 25% unknown quite possibley has to do with the other breeds behind the airedales since I believe only one other showed up that was significant.....and your not going to like that one other one either. In short, it is doubtfull that all 4,000 markers would be significant in saying it was pure or not. 300 of the critical markers may be all that is needed.....otherwise these proof of sire DNA's would also be pages long. .....not just 10 markers. You call a spade a spade if you want, I will keep my opinions. Given what I've read of other's results from Mars DNA analysis of their dog's DNA I might very well have snickered at what breeds they did say were in the blackdales if they had found them to be mixed breeds. Do you think we would ever have even heard about it if the results came back mixed? However, you do propose an interesting hypothesis and I don't know enough to hypothesize as to the probability that your hypothesis could be proven correct. It is also possible that it takes a whole lot less markers to prove parentage than to prove breed purity.
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Post by Wolfer on Dec 20, 2009 18:36:47 GMT -5
Just remember this, this thread was and is being read world wide. How you conducted your self showed the world what type of person you are. Do they have pegs for Asses? Really is it with out names of people could you please tell me what countries you are hearing from please. Congrats on getting the dna answers you wanted. Hope it works for ya the pet trade is gonna LOVE it.
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 18:39:10 GMT -5
Ireland, Brazil, Germany, Spain, and I believe Matt told me Italy and Mexico also
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 18:41:05 GMT -5
i had no idea there were so many Bouvier des Flandres mix aficionados.
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Post by Wolfer on Dec 20, 2009 18:42:21 GMT -5
YEA OK LMAO.
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Post by twopearsons on Dec 20, 2009 18:45:57 GMT -5
Conan where did you get your degree in gen. I also think Southern is waiting for the Rev. to show what the DNA is but since today is Sunday the Rev. must be working so why not wait awhile so your foot in mouth won't get hurt...............Linda
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Post by ryan the brassballed american on Dec 20, 2009 19:01:21 GMT -5
Conan where did you get your degree in gen. I also think Southern is waiting for the Rev. to show what the DNA is but since today is Sunday the Rev. must be working so why not wait awhile so your foot in mouth won't get hurt...............Linda because the airedale/Bouvier des Flandres mixes look JUST like her blacks! i trust my eyes before i trust the agenda of someone who only profits from this lie. her dales are worthless mutts(from a breeder perspective) if they are impure, but if they are exotic "rare" airedale they are worth almost double. gee......i can't figure out why southern is always suggesting her dales are pure i don't believe her story about the dna. she had to get these results yesterday(mail don't come on sunday) and i find it hard to believe she can't work a scanner. if i have to choose between the experts and one breeder who profits madly from "rare" airdales i will believe the experts. the original article did a good job of explaining how southern jmped through hops to find someone who would list her dogs as purebred. do you think she was doing that for the sake of her dogs or for her profit margins? ??
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 19:20:14 GMT -5
mail runs here on Saturday, dosen't yours. The rest of all this, I will ignore. You people are really ignorant,
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Post by thistlesdale on Dec 20, 2009 19:29:57 GMT -5
You call a spade a spade if you want, I will keep my opinions. now THAT'S refreshing! most people just nod & accept whatever Scientists tell them double kudos, Monterra!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- folks, you can't argue with $30 billion worth of Scientists you can disagree if you like, but you can't argue -case closed-
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