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Post by charlie on Dec 20, 2009 22:10:22 GMT -5
My Airedales may not be the high powered hunters that you supposedly have, but my dogs DO get out and DO SOMETHING. You should give it a try sometime instead of just giving the notion of hunting lip service. To the WHOLE WORLD out there listening, put that in your pipe and smoke it. ROTFLMAO Charlie, you malicious little sniviler. Southern, Dear, Dear Southern, I'm not a "sniveler". I'm just pointing out the TRUTH which you so often profess to be one of your best traits. I should think you would admire me for being so truthful. You just keep sticking it out there darlin' and I'll be more than happy to take a shot at it. Metaphorically speaking of course.
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Post by southern on Dec 20, 2009 22:18:08 GMT -5
aireadale. first learn to spell the breed, and yes snivlers, its already been stated it went to a labatory. The proof is on the two of you to prove different
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Post by charlie on Dec 20, 2009 22:41:21 GMT -5
aireadale. The proof is on the two of you to prove different Southern, Dear, Dear Southern. I have said before that I could care less about black airedales. They're just a sideshow as far as I'm concerned. I mean that literally. You prove it, it's your cause celebre. Show us the money!!! Of course, you seldom read and comprehend what I have posted so I can understand your oversight as to my interest in black airedales. It's when you open yourself up to the myriad other issues you expound on that I feel compelled to respond. I would just like you to post the results and get it over. Then we can concentrate on other things. ---Case still open---
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Post by jespinoza on Dec 20, 2009 22:54:55 GMT -5
Hey conan, Is that the kit that you use? you seem kind of familiar with it. I didn't even know they carried one.
John
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Post by thistlesdale on Dec 21, 2009 9:33:16 GMT -5
Against Southern's wishes, I'm going to post a couple photos of the DNA collection. I'm not posting these photos for the sake of argument. I'm posting these photos in order to avoid any confusion about what sort of DNA collection/analyses were conducted. the black airedales were microchipped, the chips were scanned, blood was drawn, swabs were taken, all the paperwork was filled out, in an animal hospital, by a licensed Veterinarian; and the entire process was documented in photographs the collection samples were then sent off FROM the animal hospital, TO the $30 Billion Mars Inc laboratory for analyses, & the results will be posted here shortly
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Post by southern on Dec 21, 2009 11:40:57 GMT -5
Sorry but no swabs, this was done by blood only.
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Post by thistlesdale on Dec 21, 2009 13:55:52 GMT -5
Southern, I know the scurrilous accusations have been difficult for you to endure. The many attempts to impugn the integrity of your solid black line here are but a sad testament of the degree to which our industrialized "1st world" civilization has decayed... nevertheless, I am thrilled with the results of these analyses!!! they shed a lot of light on the truth about airedale terrier history This is CH Tone Masterpiece. Bull terrier/bull & terrier influence was self evident at this point in airedale terrier history. The Tone prefeix was seminal in the early foundations of the breed, and the impact CH Masterpiece had upon the breed as we know it cannot be overestimated. I'd be amazed to find an airedale terrier alive today that doesn't have this dog's name repeated several times in it's pedigree, at least. I feel foolish right now for ever having questioned the airedale's "bull & terrier" heritage. When a 19th century Yorkshireman said "large working terrier" what other type could he have POSSIBLY been referring to? These recent analyses are, IMO, a "missing link" in the puzzle of airedale terrier evolution. Looking at the results enables us, figuratively, to see what the earliest airedale terrier foundations actually were. 37.5% broken haired terrier 25% wire haired terrier 12.5% smooth terrier 12.5% harrier 12.5% bulldog
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Post by twopearsons on Dec 21, 2009 14:32:38 GMT -5
Ryan, I don't even have a scanner plus why would Southern even care if the Blacks are pure since she is not even breeding them and hasn't for about 4 years. So lets sit back and wait for her to download the DNA test...............Linda
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Post by jespinoza on Dec 21, 2009 17:03:36 GMT -5
The challenge now for Airedalers is to continue the effort to educate the public and law enforcement communities that these animals are not pure bred Airedale Terriers. In 1980 there were no claims of solid colored, pure bred Airedale Terriers. Yet in 2009, there are five different kennels that are actively breeding Labradales and fraudulently misrepresenting them to the public as pure bred dogs! In summary, recall that no writer, from the earliest days of the breed to the present, has ever mentioned either an all black or all red Airedale Terrier. Clay Coady, a very well respected professional dog man acting at the behest of the AKC, reviewed the original stock of Southern Drach Harrison Herrera and decided that they were Labrador Retriever Airedale Terrier cross bred dogs. Two different legal proceedings, a District Court and an Appeals Court, both determined that the Drach Black Labradales were not pure bred dogs upholding AKC's right to remove ALL of the Drach connected dogs from both the stud book AND the registry. Some twenty years after the Coady investigation other long time Airedalers, some of whom are breeders, took in and cared for the 19 Drach Black Labradales and all said the dogs did not have signature Airedale personalities. The question of DNA proof , as claimed by Southern Drach Harrison Herrera and her apprentices, could not have been established at the point in time that she claims; it was a scientific impossibility. These five kennels know this to be true. If they had certain proof, or truly accepted that what they had was proof, why would they not answer the three simple questions to support their contention?
This is off of the original post that started this whole thread and now DNA. The sad part is that this Coady person called these dogs labradales. This person was either a total liar that represented a very big organization, or a person without any knowledge of the airedale breed. Either way if anybody caused any grief to the breed such as with rescue organizations, it would have been this man. And he represented the airedale breed. WOW
John
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Post by oksaradt on Dec 21, 2009 17:24:54 GMT -5
In the bookstore this weekend I saw a 2010 calendar for Labradoodles on sale. The public is currently novelty-breed crazy.
Jim
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jax
Hunter/worker
Posts: 133
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Post by jax on Dec 21, 2009 17:52:29 GMT -5
After looking at the results posted above, I am still a skeptic. The dogs are at least 50% Airedale and at least 12.5% Bulldog (if it is the English Bulldog I don't see it). Someone posted the stuff about genetic bands and human dna id. These few bands are apparently sufficient to id a single person. That is kind of a reverse proposition to the issue here. It is widely known that there are @ 35,000 genes in the human genome. Apes have a similar number and we share over 95% of our genetic material with chimpanzees. That means that only 1750 genes separate us from chimps. It is a hell of a difference in that little bit of genetic material. The reason this test is inconclusive is simple. For ANY lab to do a breed purity comparative genomic evaluation they would first have to map the genomic sequence of the sample and then compare that to the known genome of the Airedale Terrier. Obviously Mars did not and could not do that, especially for $79.95. Afterall, you don't become a $30 billion dollar enterprise by giving away such technical expertise. Anyway it is done and this is the result. Caution dictates that we bear in mind that both dogs are at least 62.5% identifiable and 37.5% unidentifiable. To me, that does not constitute proof of breed purity.
Oh and John, the article says that Coady was acting at the behest of the AKC, not the Airedale Terrier. The AKC (and I think the Kipps) were being sued as codefendents for 30 million dollars, according to southern . I think Coady is still active in the breed but I don't know that, he did have many, many years experience with Airedales and made a handsome living as a handler. I'm just trying to keep it in perspective.
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Post by hicntry on Dec 21, 2009 17:59:40 GMT -5
At least he was smart enough to know the wrong answer would cost him his job....As The World Turns. Whats funny is that it doesn't seem to really matter to anyone but the show breeders and the ones here that are stirring "for the good of the breed". Here is another thought. It really bothers them thatm someone that is supposidly just doing it for the money may be getting a bit over half of what they charge for a dog. Heck, They get $1500 last I heard for a pet quality......but everyone else is money grubbing. When this DNA subject has run its course, i think it is high time the fallacy of the hobby breeder be exposed.
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Post by doylecpd on Dec 21, 2009 18:25:43 GMT -5
Jax, I don't see where you get 62% identifiable, 37% unidentifiable? The 3 areas are categories (ranges). There is no known breed that make up 25-50% in the two dogs.
You have 100%, now take out between 12-25% (Bulldog), the remainder is known Airedale make-up. Thats it!!
As I said before, we would have to wait 5 years or so when the entire mapping for every breed is done and then we can tell exactly, but for now....it is what it is!
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Post by ed on Dec 21, 2009 18:37:14 GMT -5
Interesting bull dog history. Bull terrier from the 1880's when the Airedale according to Hochwalt was failing badly in "the pits". Is this the guy they used to gin the breed up?
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Post by thistlesdale on Dec 21, 2009 18:38:30 GMT -5
[show breeders] get $1500 last I heard for a pet quality......but everyone else is money grubbing. the going rate for some of the other breeds mentioned here around here lately is $2500, whereas the most I've ever seen a US airedale advertised for is $1000 these are the market prices where I come from, & this part of my disillusionment w/ the ATCA airedale = more than twice the dog, for less than half the price showbreeders sell the breed short, IMO the ATCA has taken it upon themselves to "promote the breed" yet in reality the club promotes nothing beyond it's own little social groupthink & preferred breed type I call that gross negligence, gross incompetence, etc etc etc if any cattlemen's association conducted itself in such fashion, producers simply wouldn't pay their annual membership dues, & the organization would be defunct by year's end
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