Extreme fur dogs

[hicntry]

Try it once!!! Heck, it looks like that little guy has the makings for a stud.

[Roger]

I think that a thirty to forty pound terrier would be great for thick brush, blowdowns, holes and such. I aim to find out. Heide Terrier (American made). I'll keep you posted. I guess I failed to mention that the dog on top is a Jadg Terrier. That little dog is pound for pound, the hardest hunting, hardest fighting thing I've ever seen. You've got to see one work to appreciate them.

[rc1]

What line is your jagd from Keep us posted about how those pups turn out...

[Roger]

The Jagd is from Knitehunt kennels in Missouri. He's 17" tall and weighs 20lbs. The female is 22" tall and weighs 45 - 50lbs. Both these dogs are natural trailers and killers.

[ed]

Roger this is what you might get! If you do call.

www.drueckjagdmeute.de/html/fotogalerie_ht_5.html

[Roger]

If this breeding takes, I'm sure the pups will look alot like some of the dogs in those pictures. Thanks Ed. This will help translate the reading part. translate.google.com/translate_

[terrierman816]

Hey Roger, I just posted about this on acouple of other bds. I would be VERY interested in hearing how this breeding/pups turn out. I really like the fact that your (F) AD is not real big. I don't think I would be able to get a pup (if any were made available) off of this breeding. But I would be very interested in one if a possible future breeding were to take place. Can you tell me a little about the personality of the dogs? Do you find that the AD is more laid back than the Jagd? Thanks for your time, Sid

[Maverick]

terrierman816 said:

Hey Roger, I just posted about this on acouple of other bds. I would be VERY interested in hearing how this breeding/pups turn out. I really like the fact that your (F) AD is not real big. I don't think I would be able to get a pup (if any were made available) off of this breeding. But I would be very interested in one if a possible future breeding were to take place. Can you tell me a little about the personality of the dogs? Do you find that the AD is more laid back than the Jagd? Thanks for your time, Sid

Sid - I've had working and hunting terriers most of my life. Both the AD and Jagd are laid back when lounging around the house. But the Jagd (I'm sure there is exceptions) has a demonic possession mode (think Linda Blair in "The Exorcist") where they truly seem possessed by a demon. Combined with a level of dog sharpness as a breed that may only be exceeded by game bred pit bulls, dogs end up dead unless you are very very careful. Every dog I have ever lost to fights has been due to Jagds. I have had only a few Jagds, but have had several Patterdales (mostly Nuttall descendants) since 1979, and although as a breed, I would give the edge to Patterdales in toughness, courage, durability, and fighting ability, I have never lost a dog due to a Patterdale, nor even a serious fight. Jagds definitely have a blood lust, yet the worst one (the male I had years ago) was the only dog I could trust with ferrets! Go figure?!! I think that Jagds are slowly getting the dog sharpness bred out of them, and unfortunately, I hear more and more of pit bull people developing Patterdales as miniature fighting dogs.

I know of a couple of long time hound men that have become Jagd enthusiasts. One has been successful in finding Jagds without extreme dog sharpness, and by using a heavy hand from the time they are puppies when dealing with dog fights, has a pack of Jagds living and hunting together. Still, he does bury a few that can't resist dog fighting, and he never adds an adult to his pack. The other guy has had no luck at all with running Jagds in packs except for a few females. His best male he ran with his hound pack up to about a year of age. Then on one tree, the Jagd was apparently very frustrated at not being able to get to the bear, and took out his frustrations on the (IIRC) 6 70lb plus bear hounds, and nearly killed the whole pack. The Jagd has been hunted singly on his own since then, with apparently a better record than his hounds in the Olympic temperate rain forest, though it is now only "bobcat" hunting as bear and cougar hunting with dogs has been outlawed a few years ago. I had a male years ago that killed a couple of dogs and chewed one up, even with care and a concerted effort to break him off dogs. A pair of recent females could not be reliably broke off trying to kill my staghounds unless I was in the immediate vicinity. I ended up giving away the instigator in frustration. That is one out of three Jagds that I have been able to break from dog fighting, and that required a very heavy hand when she was in the blood lust induced berserker mode that is as close to a real life example of demonic possession as I have ever witnessed, and I have had several intense Patterdale terriers! Otherwise, she is a sweet, affectionate, and extremely smart little dog.

I have heard that when crossed, this demonic flaw in Jagd personality seems to be dominate. I don't have any first hand experience, just something I heard. I am very interested in hard numbers on the transmission of Jagd demonic possession to offspring. Also curious about Jagd vocalizations (screaming, squealing, crying, and the rest of the undoglike sounds they make) in the offspring.

I don't know if Wolfer has experience with Jagd crosses, but he does have a fair amount of experience with Jagds. Hopefully he can add to this thread.

Pete

[Roger]

This is the only Jagd that I have any experience with Sid. He's content being a lap dog in the house, but definatly has an extra gear when his prey drive is kicked in. Something else is that he's far more agile than most dogs I've seen.

[ed]

The German link below relates the experience of 30 year history crossing ADT's and Jagdterriers. You can run it through several translators. My read is a positive one on the resulting dog. Its more relaxed and more biddable than the JT's yet retains very strong hunting drive. The sharpness and blind fury of JT.s has been tempered. The Heideterrier is not an F1 cross but one that has been done for double digit generations with the admixture in some cases of Irish terrier and in the early years of bull terrier. The site is good for its pics even if German is Greek to you.



www.heideterrier.de/index-1-3.htm

[terrierman816]

Thanks for the reply guys. This was my thinking that the AD would kinda cool the "demonic dog sharpness" side of the JT. Roger how is your Jagd around your AD (when she's not in heat) or any other dogs that you have? Can they be run together in the field with out problems or do you see the kinda of behavior that Pete was talking about. I've had JRT's for yrs and terrier tempermants are terrier tempermants, but had always heard that JT's were at the upper end of the scale. I've read alittle about the Heideterrier. In fact when I posted about this mix on the TC bd a fella by the name of Martin, who I think lives in Germany posted some pics and good info on the breed. Being a man of meager means I have no access to these dogs. So I thought of looking around the U.S. for someone who might do this cross. As I live in No. Michigan I was thinking of possibly a pair to work on coons, bob's and coyotes. Thanks again for your input guys. Gotta go. Sid

[castiron]

Hey Eggers.....where did you get the Jagd's you were speaking of? I do believe some of the sharpness is being bred out of these dogs because I have never seen any of the breeders speak of the type of dog aggression you described. I do like a certain amount of sharpness to a dog as long as they are controllable.
thanks,
Matt

[Maverick]

I would like to add that I have never seen or heard of a Jagd fighting in the field, just when kenneled, at a tree, or over a kill. You have to get their adrenaline flowing along with some territorialism, possessiveness, or frustration. Otherwise, and especially around people they know, they tend to be little teddy bears.

Another problem with the small Jagds is that they can put a lot of distance between you and them and then find a den with something at home, like a badger and work it for hours, and you won't be able to find it without a good terrier collar (even that is debatable when at a long distance, and especially in heavy cover), or better yet is a good marking dog (bays and digs to get to your Jagd) with a tracking collar. You really need to be sure of the marking dog before your Jagd disappears down a hole a mile away in heavy cover and you don't even know the direction.

Heideterriers sound interesting. I think the correct translation would be 'brush terriers'.

Note: Any 30 to 40 lb dog is not a hole dog, unless you are talking about coyote dens. Bear and cougar dens would be suicidal, if not illegal. I can't imagine taking on a mama bobcat in her den would be a good idea either. Most hole (den) terriers that are seriously worked are under 16 lbs, over 20 lbs, and you really don't have much in the way of dens to work.

Pete

[Maverick]

castiron said:

Hey Eggers.....where did you get the Jagd's you were speaking of? I do believe some of the sharpness is being bred out of these dogs because I have never seen any of the breeders speak of the type of dog aggression you described. I do like a certain amount of sharpness to a dog as long as they are controllable.
thanks,
Matt

My first was from Al Grawe back in Minnesota/North Dakota. He got his from some coon hunters, and I don't think any were registered. He matured out at 32 lbs -- a really big boy for a Jagd. The females that I recently acquired were sired by Butch Nelson's Jiggs out of North Fork WA, and I have been told that Jiggs is out of Jones' breeding. The dam was a German import that was to be put down for an eye problem that the owners felt was genetic and the vet was sure wasn't, and gave it away to one of his assistants. No paper on the dam obviously.

No breeder I have ever talked to claims there is a problem, in fact I can't think of but a couple breeders that I have ever known that would admit to any "problem". Jim Gibbs that hunts them hard down around Coos Bay OR says he doesn't have a problem either, though he does have to shoot a pup every once in awhile that he can't break with an e-collar. I guess it is perception. And I can't think of anyone I know that hunts them and are not selling pups (about 5), that won't tell you that Jagds in general are dog sharp to very dog sharp as a breed. I don't have a lot of experience, as I have raised 3. Only the current one will not start a fight on her own, but with her littermate, she did some serious damage to a couple of Staghounds.

The terrier that I have had that had the highest 'coon sharpness (and at 17 lbs she could kill any coon by herself up to 20 lbs or so in 2 minutes or less -- we're talking nasty dog whippin suburban coons here!) had no dog sharpness at all, even when challenged (though she would defend herself, if necessary). The level of dog sharpness does not equate to game sharpness, and sharpness can be different on different game! If there is one thing I have learned in 40+ years of hunting dogs, it is that you CANNOT predict how well a dog will hunt by how it acts on the end of a lead or in someone's yard! Sometimes the difference can be dramatic.

Pete

[Wolfer]

I started hearning about this particular cross some years back. Al the jagds I have owned have been Pure as well as my dales. When I first seen that roger was trien this cross I got excited and did some quick research on rogers dog, the jagd roger not your dale.

What I have heard is real close to what petey has heard that the cross tends to be sharp, one dog possibly 2 but when running multiples your looking for trouble. But the hunt is always there and they are DEAD GAME style dogs. those of us who have run Tree dogs know that with a Sharp dog at the tree is when the fights begin and if ya have a 45lb Jagd fighting another dog at the tree something in gonna get hurt. and quite possibly DEAD I know my chopper Dog and My ol Max Dog Both would have een dog killers at 45lbs Hell they did more than enough damage at 18 and 24lbs.

Now if ya could get the airedale brain with the grit of a Jagd then you would have a kick ass dog.
As for my jagds they were great little dog on the yard as long as they hounds were kenneled they handled great when soloed but there was something twisted when they were on game. Petey brought up the screaming. first time I ever heard that sound was when my max dog treed a feral cat in the back yard . he started screaming and I grabbed the rifle and headed for the yard i just new one of the big dogs grabbed him.

Butch Nelson was one of the first guys to start breeding the larger Jagd. I have seen a few dogs off his Kennel and for the most part was happy but not overly impressed. I am familar with Knitehunt as well.

I Love the Little hellfires and I am watching this cross with an Open mind, and also waiting for an update on petey's cross.